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Stevie: So, about a year ago— so, my best friend, her name is Danielle Owens-Reid — I recommended that you should take her on the podcast, because she’s fucking great. Um—
Lila: Yes please.
Stevie: We’ve been friends for … four years? And I like, tell her everything. And, about a year ago, she told me, “I always liked you because you remind me sooo much of like, younger me.” And I was like, (softly) “Oh I ‘m the fuck that means, but ok.” Um, and then, we were talking about feelings one day, and she was like, “Well, how does that feel? Like what does that actually feel like in your body?” And I was like, “What do you mean, in my body?” (Lila hm’s) And she was like, “Like when you feel something.” And I was like, pffffth! “Danielle, you’re fucking kidding right, that’s not why they’re called feelings, like it’s a metaphor, you don’t actually feel them. (Lila laughs lightly) And she was like, (seriously) “Stevie. YES YOU DO.” And I was like, “WHAT?” So then, she was like, “Okay, you should like, close your eyes and like, think about something that makes you happy and like, notice all of the differences in your body. Like what happens when you feel that. Think about something that makes you angry.” Anger’s the easiest one for me, right. Especially in this day and age. Um, and like, notice the differences in your body. And then joy, and then arousal! Like of course, I see, I— feel physical things with arousal, whatever. So then I started practicing and at first, I didn’t feel anything and I was like, no, this is fucking stupid. But then I kept doing it, and then … n— now I, fucking feel things. And thennn, maybe it took like a month or two— And I always felt things, but like very lightly (Lila hm’s) compared to how I do now. Like it was like, “Oh yeah like, joy I get like this little, like— or excitement I get like these, like, little thunderbolts that are like inside of my chest and like stomach that are like, make me wanna jump up and down and like go like this, right?” Um but, now, excitement is like, TIMES A HUNDRED, but the same thing but times a hundred. And so now I’m learning how to feel— (silly voice) I’m learning how to feel emotions! Feelings are literally called feelings for a reason! Which is fuckin’ — was so mind-blowing to me a year ago. Anyway, so it made me develop an extreme anxiety disorder. (high-pitched laugh!) So, I don’t know if I’m like, happy ‘bout it, or mad ‘bout it. But, I’m goin’ through it. And I’m in lots of therapy. So… we’ll fuckin’ see.
Lila: You are, literally, feeling the feels.
Stevie: Got all the feels. And they feel great. I’m honestly kind of happy that my, childhood trauma or whatever the fuck that caused me to have deep repression and like, not feel things, happened, because like, holy shit, it helped me survive. And I was like, “Cool, brain, that was a cool thing.” ‘Cause now, after I’ve developed all this emotional maturity, by feeling things very slightly, to where they don’t control my actions, yeah, I feel like I’m just now going through puberty or something. Emotional puberty.
Lila: That’s interesting, that reminds me—
Stevie: So that now I know how to— (trails off) deal with them…
Lila: I bet it’s similar for trauma, that reminds me of something that Cheryl Strayed says in her book tiny beautiful things, which is a book of her advice columns as Dear Sugar. And she says that … there’s a saying that drug addicts and alcoholics stop maturing at the time that they started using, (Stevie hm’s) and she said, “And I’ve known enough of them, to believe that to be true.” (Stevie mm’s) And it makes sense to me, about trauma as well.
Stevie: Yeah.
Lila: That, you would have to halt your emotional maturity because, then… extent of the emotional cataclysm is so overwhelming that you wouldn’t be able to process it, so you shut down until you can.
Stevie: Yeah, I think that there’s a difference between: learning emotional maturity and learning, for instance, how to claim your emotions and claim your responsibility and, those are things you objectively learn. I don’t think that they’re— they’re not processing. Like I’ve never learned how to process. So that’s what I’m doing now. So my, because I was in a, whatever, repressive or dissociative or whatever state, I never processed any, any of my trauma, that doesn’t mean that I didn’t learn that, for instance, something I just really fuckin’ love saying all the time — because it’s something that rings true for me, ‘cause I’m a very brutally honest person, is that: honesty without tact is cruelty. (Lila mmhm’s) So I can learn that and still be repressing things, and that’s a thing that like, I dunno, can help in romantic and friendships and stuff like that.
Lila: Yeah.
Stevie: But yeah, I think that you can’t, I dunno, a therapist told me— my therapist friend told me that um — you can’t process when you’re repressed, or disassociated. But that doesn’t mean you can’t learn and live.
Welcome to horizontal, the podcast about intimacy of all kinds. We record while the opposite of vertical. And we always wear robes, because it’s important.
In October of 2017, I went on a cross-country road trip and recording tour that I dubbed horizontal does america.
In this episode, I’ve made it across the U.S. to Missoula, Montana. Through a series of fortuities (which you can hear about at the beginning of episode 40, with Lindsey Doe), I got to lie down with Stevie Boebi at Lindsey’s house!
Stevie is a huge ginormous (Instagram and) YouTube star, and yet spontaneously, generously agreed to don a robe, become horizontal, and record uber-personal stories for a complete stranger’s project. Bless her.
Stevie Boebi is the creator and host of the first Lesbian Sex Ed video series. Go subscribe to her YouTube channel (it’s just called “Stevie”) and let her teach you things about pussies, stereotypes, identity politics, and sexxx. Particularly of the giving pleasure to those with pussies variety of sex, such as “How to Finger a Girl,” “How to Have Strap-On Sex,” and “Literally How to Scissor.” (To begin at the beginning, enjoy the video below.)
HOW TO HAVE LESBIAN SEX – Lesbian Sex 101
💼 BUSINESS/PR ENQUIRIES – stevieboebi@gooeymgmt.com 💼 PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/StevieBoebi TWITTER: http://www.twitter.com/stevieboebi INSTA: http://www.instagram.com/stevieboebi TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@stevieboebi HOPP: https://www.hopp.bio/stevieboebi BRING STEVIE TO YOUR SCHOOL: https://goo.gl/forms/NJTZELAEJucU6w9G3 Tumblr: http://www.stevieboebi.tumblr.com Merch: https://store.dftba.com/collections/stevie-boebi Lindsey can be found in these places: YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/sexplanations PATREON https://www.patreon.com/sexplanations TWITTER https://twitter.com/elleteedee TUMBLR https://www.tumblr.com/blog/tumblingdoe FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/sexplanations
In this second part of our episode, we discuss Lila’s first good threesome, compersion, uneven but balanced relationships (such as, why Stevie likes to date poly people while she remains sexually monogamous), being monogamish, being poly-adjacent, the words “cunt” and “slit,” and Stevie tells me a story about being a voyeur.
Also, feelings.
Lie down with us!
If you enjoy lying down with Stevie and I, become a patron of the horizontal arts! Patreon is an innovation in the life of the artist. It’s a website that crowdsources income on a monthly basis. It can make it possible for me to continue creating independent, uncensored, ad-free homemade radio. My intention is to keep this podcast ad-free, but also to make this my primary career. Show me that you believe in my mission of cultivating intimacy across the world (and dislike ads)!
Links to Things:
Patron of the horizontal arts!
Stevie’s fantabulous (and funny) YouTube channel, where you can learn nearly everything about lesbian sex.
Stevie’s Instagram, where each post is like a haiku-essay.
Stevie’s Twitter, where she says things. The things on her mind. You know.
Hacienda Villa, where Lila and the Villans live.
In this episode, Stevie recommends nitrile gloves for digital penetration. I took a leaf out of Stevie’s book and recommended them when I was interviewed for Grant Stoddard’s Tonic piece, titled, “9 Things All Good Sex Party Hosts Will Have on Hand.”
Lila proposes the word “libertine” in place of the word “slut,” inspired by this episode of Bawdy Storytelling.
Cheryl Strayed’s book tiny beautiful things, which is a collection of her raw and tender advice columns as Dear Sugar.
Show Notes (feel free to share quotes/resources on social media, and please link to iTunes, this website, or my Patreon!):
iTunes link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/horizontal-with-lila/id1238031115&ls=1
website link: https://horizontalwithlila.com/
Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/horizontalwithlila
[3:25] Lila tells the story of the Rainbows & Unicorns party at the Villa.
[4:05]
Lila: We call ourselves the Villans, ‘cause we live at the Villa. (Stevie giggles) So the Villans wanted to do their own party. And we’d been planning for a long time and the idea had been tossed around for a long time to do a rainbow unicorn party, because one of my housemates, he has a … a fetish of, like Rainbow Brite? And he loves for his (giggles) his girlfriends to—
Stevie: Fuckin’ love Rainbow Brite.
Lila: — young and wear rainbow things and (giggles) he—
Stevie: That was my shit as a kid.
Lila: Yeah.
Stevie: Wait, is she— a ginger?
Lila: … he …
Stevie: Rainbow Brite!
Lila: Oh is she a ginger?
Stevie: Yeah.
Lila: … Gosh, I don’t remember.
[Note: See visual aid. Blond? Yellow-haired? Or could she be strawberry blond? Who can say.]
Stevie: Sorry.
Lila: Yeah… maybe.
Stevie: Every woman, or character I was obsessed with as a child, I’m starting to realize, is ginger, and that’s why I’m s— extremely uncomfortable around gingers. Anyway, sorry, go on.
Lila: Oh, interesting!
Stevie: Forgot about Rainbow Brite!
Lila: Well I’m not natural, so… (giggles)
Stevie: Kim Possible— obsessed with her. Maid Marian, from fuckin’ the, the fox version of Robinhood.
Lila: Oh my God, the fox version of Robinhood; I loved that!
Stevie: (heaves a little sigh) K. So you had your Rainbow Brite unicorn party, rainbow unicorn party.
Lila: So, yeah, so we wound up calling it Rainbow Playground, and, it was really fun because, I obviously enjoy control and (giggle) and I love creative control specifically, and so we had a lot of creative control and input and my, my role was doing the deco for the first floor and, so we had piñatas, and we had balloons, and we had— I made a candy mandala, which took me like 13 hours to complete.
Stevie: Oh my God.
Lila: It was ridiculous. But it was beautiful! And we made, you know, melted crayon art, so there’s a lot of— there’s always a lot of creativity and sort of, Burning Man-style—
Stevie: Oh wow.
Lila: — performativeness that goes into all of our play parties. They’re really, well thought-out, almost installations.
Stevie: Wow.
Lila: And I had, also a large role, in the evening, in that— it was also partially to celebrate my birthday, which was a few days ago, and because it was before I was going on this… adventure.
Stevie: Happy late birthday.
Lila: Thank you. And I, you know, knew that we were gonna do the piñata — one for me and one for my my housemate whose birthday it also was, and I knew I was gonna do my first— I had only done my first suspension — rope suspension — a couple days before in order to practice for this and then I knew this would be my first public—
Stevie: Wow.
Lila: — suspension. In rainbow rope. So, all these different colors of rope down my body and I was dressed as a unicorn so it was a rainbow unicorn suspension, with a long silver horn. (both chuckle)
[6:54] Lila tells the story of her first good (unicorn!) threesome.
Lila: And I had the week before woken up from— first of all I had a terrible, terrible day. And then my subconscious gave me this lovely dream. And I woke up from this dream of my friend kissing me. And they are a young couple, and I s— I didn’t know that they were kinky until— I had met him in a different, (giggles) very different scene, and then, at my, maybe second or third time doing Thai bodywork at a play party, which I used to do… I saw him and met his girlfriend for the first time. And they went, into— they had this little, a little tent set up in one of the areas at this party. And we gave them a four-handed massage (Stevie mmhms) while they were on one massage table together, making out and touching each other and then they were having these four hands roam all over and massage them. And then, they said, “Okay, we’re gonna go into this tent with this other couple. And I felt … envy.” (both laugh)
Stevie: Oh no!
Lila: And so, you know, a week before this rainbow playground party, I woke up from this dream that he was kissing me. And I texted him, I said, “OHH! I was just given this delightful dream after this terrible day! And I woke up and you were kissing me.” And he said, “Oh man, I’ve had a really crummy day too, that’s delightful, that, that makes my day.” And they had been coming to our play parties; I got them involved as volunteers. And I said, “Well maybe, your girlfriend wouldn’t mind, if you gave me a kiss.” And he said, “No, she gets really turned-on when I kiss women.” And I said… “Maybe… she would want to kiss me too…” It’s just an option. (Stevie snorts) It’s available. I was trying to create an opt-in after the fact. J— I mean— it’s available, if she would be interested. And he got back to me maybe 10 minutes later and said, “She would love to kiss, and love to watch us kiss.” And so we had that, sort of—
Stevie: That’s fucking cute.
Lila: — hanging, you know, over the evening. And then the evening ended, right, and there was the production of of doing the, the piñata and doing the cake and doing the suspension and then, kind of, decompressing from the suspension because it didn’t go the way that we had planned and actually it was, there was a painful spot—
Stevie: Can I also say that it’s really interesting and cool that it was originally you and him organizing kissing for her pleasure? Instead of you and her organizing it for his.
Lila: Yeah.
Stevie: Anyway, go on.
Lila: Yeah! And actually, the other thing that he told me — and I’m glad you brought that up because — the other thing he told me was, “She is bisexual and has been wanting to explore,” (Stevie mmhms) “but we haven’t done it yet. Because we wan— wanted to do it with somebody who felt really safe.” (Stevie mm’s softly) And so the whole party goes by, and, the aftershift goes by, the cleanup shift goes by, and then, so we’re up on my floor and there’s nothing left to be done, and, it’s sort of, “Okay well now it’s, you know, 5, 6am, okay I guess… by-yye?” (Lila giggles) “Bye…” And he says, “Would it be alright if I kissed Lila?” And she said, “Of course.” And he gave me a little kiss, and I said, “Would it be alright if I kissed her?” And he said, “Yes!” And I kissed her, and I liked kissing her— m— more than I liked kissing him, even. And, we just—
Stevie: Of course you did.
Lila: — continued to, to kiss and it was wonderful; she’s a wonderful kisser! And so then I think that, that ice had been broken, and he, he also expressed earlier in the party, he said, “I I I do really want to kiss you, but I feel nervous,” and she said, “Oh my God…” (giggles)
Stevie: Awwohh.
Lila: So finally, you know, we all kiss and then I, I, have a little loft bed ‘cause I live in Brooklyn in (Stevie chuckles) in a tiny little room and, and so I, y’know, brought them up to my bed and, we’d been— (both laughs) Oh! I also gave the con— the, the orientation and the consent speech, with Mirelle that night, at the beginning. So, asking, creating opt-ins, making sure you only accept enthu— enthusiastic yesses, and say no if you’re a maybe, and all this, right? But that’s not really how I like to play. (Stevie mm’s) So it’s important for parties and, it’s just important in general—
Stevie: Yeah.
Lila: But I—
Stevie: It’s great to do it before.
Lila: I prefer to, to choose people that I’m mostly a yes with for most things and then escalate non-verbally and then speak when I need to. (Stevie mm’s) And so, I said, “Is it okay if we just, do that?” And they said yes. So… we climb up to (laughs and makes a cartoon ladder-climbing sound) my, my little bed and then… I— love these people. And that was not true of any other threesome experience that I’ve ever had.
Stevie: (softly) Wow.
Lila: They’re lovely people and I care for them, already. And they’re sweet and sexy. And so, there was talking and there was cuddling and then there was touching and then, she was a conduit and we were facilitating her pleasure, and, at— y’know, my favorite point, she was going down on me and I was on my back, and he was inside her from behind, and, I could see him and then he and I both came, simultaneously—
Stevie: That’s amazing. Lila: — looking at each other—
Lila: — with her, you know? And then I sort of, you know, calmed down from that and then, we started, you know, running our hands over her and she said, “I will never tell you to stop,” (Stevie giggles) so just, you know, “stop whenever you want. I will never tell you to stop.” And, I had, only once before, digitally penetrated a woman.
Stevie: (softly) Oh wow!
Lila: So, this was my second time, and, I was concerned about my nails (Stevie chuckles) and concerned that I was going to, you know—
Stevie: Gloves.
Lila: — hurt her, yeah, right, I didn’t use gloves. (giggles, expresses Stevie’s seeming disapproval in the form of a) Mm.
Stevie: For the future: gloves.
Lila: Stevie just made a face. Mmph.
Stevie: No! No, just use gloves.
Lila: Can I just cut my nails?
Stevie: Yeah, but there’s bacteria—
Lila: Better—
Stevie: — under your nails, your nails are always—
Lila: Better, better gloves.
Stevie: — sharp most of the time, even if you clip them.
Lila: Yeah.
Stevie: Gloves feel way better than skin anyway. For the person being penetrated.
Lila: Okay.
Stevie: ‘cause it’s smooth.
Lila: Okay. Next time I will use gloves. Kenneth has got a— store of them (Stevie chuckles) I will just run downstairs and get some gloves.
Stevie: I like nitrile black.
Lila: Yep. That’s what he’s got. That’s the jam.
Stevie: So, how did it feel to penetrate?
Lila: Oh, so I really enjoyed how squishy! (Stevie cracks up) How squishy it was on the inside.
Stevie: Squishy!! What a word!
Lila: Yeah!
Stevie: Squishy!
Lila: It was! And, it felt so squishy and receptive and and alive and— (Stevie mmhm’s) yeah, juicy. And so he was, on the side of her and kissing her and she was rubbing her clit and I was with my, my hand inside her … and she came that way. And it was just lovely. It was just a lovely experience. And the only, threesome experiences I’ve had have been, pretty emotionally fraught for me. (Stevie hm’s) And, there was always some left out feeling. (Stevie hm’s) It was the first time I didn’t have that. And I also thought maybe I just wasn’t, a person who experienced compersion at all.
Stevie: What’s compersion?
Lila: It’s a made-up word— by people in the Kerista Commune in the 70s I think to speak of joy for your partner’s joy, particularly in terms of a romantic or sexual context.
Stevie: Whoaa. That’s a fuckin’ awesome word.
Lila: Compersion. And I thought maybe I just wasn’t wired for that, but, I definitely felt it, as I saw them together and as I was with them, I felt joy that they were feeling joy, I felt joy that we were facilitating, something for her that she’s wanted and—
Stevie: So com— how you say it, compersure?
Lila: Compersion.
Stevie: So compersion is the opposite of schadenfraude?
Lila: Yeah. Exactly.
[15:46] Lila & Stevie on compersion and monogamy.
Stevie: I’m so wired for compersion.
Lila: Yeah?
Stevie: Oh my God yes.
Lila: I wish it wasn’t a question for me. I wish it was just … natural. But I think… in situations in which I feel very safe, that I would feel it. (Stevie hm’s) I don’t think it’s impossible for me, I just think, I have to feel very safe. (Stevie mm’s)
Stevie: I love feeling that. It’s like, the reason I fall in love with people. And it’s not just sexual or having other partners that makes me feel it it’s like, them talking about their passions or enjoying themselves, obviously, but, I especially feel it when they’re having— feeling good, with other people. So I like dating poly people. (Stevie giggles)
Lila: Mmhmm! Clearly!
Stevie: Clearly! (titters)
Lila: And definitely poly, many loves, not— some other form of ethical nonmonogamy.
Stevie: I don’t kno-oow. I think that I’m, I’m open to it all, but I find poly people who have had, you know, successful and whatever like, poly relationships, desirable because of the qualities that are needed to do that (Lila mmhm’s) in this day and age. So like, objectively I’m into people that are poly, and also, ‘cause I’m into compersion.
Lila: Yes!
Stevie: I’m into people that are poly. Um, but I’m pretty, sexually monogamous at least.
Lila: Oh!
Stevie: Yeah.
Lila: But you, don’t mind— or rather, even, have joy for your partner’s sexual exploits with others.
Stevie: (decisively) Yes.
Lila: That is really fascinating to me.
Stevie: Why?
Lila: Poly/mono relationships are… often really fraught. (Stevie hm’s)
poly/mono relationship (noun) = a romantic/sexual relationship in which one person identifies as polyamorous (having many loves and/or sexual partners) and the other identifies as monogamous (having one love and/or sexual partner). Both consent to the relationship despite its seeming unevenness.
Stevie: Oh yeah, I prefer to date someone that’s sleeping with other people.
Lila: Less pressure?
Stevie: I’m just so happy that you gave me a word to describe why. (Lila chuckles) It’s definitely not less pressure, it’s definitely that I crave … compersure?
Lila: Compersion.
Stevie: Compersion. I’m not gonna remember it, compersion.
Lila: Well, I don’t think it’s a very nice sounding word, but I’m glad that there is a word. To describe it.
Stevie: Yeaah.
Lila: And if you think “Persian cat” (Stevie hm’s) and you think “with a Persian cat.”
Stevie: Got it.
Lila: Compersion.
Stevie: Come-persian. (Lila giggles) You’re coming …
Lila: Oh!
Stevie: — with a Persian cat?
Lila: Oh no!
Stevie: That’s real bad but that’s what’ll help me remember. […]
Lila: I basically think that that’s the most beautiful way to be.
Stevie: Poly?
Lila: No. Compersious. I just don’t … (chuckle) don’t always feel it.
[18:49] Did Lila feel compersion with her last partner?
[19:18]
Lila: I consider myself, by the way, poly-adjacent.
poly-adjacent (adjective) = being close to polyamorous people in proximity, or polyamorous relationships in ideals (Lila’s term).
Stevie: Okay.
Lila: You know?
Stevie: Yeah, I consider myself monogamish. (Lila mmhm’s) Because I am sexually monogamous, usually. But that’s the thing. That could fucking change. I’ve never like—
Lila: (emphatically) Yes.
Stevie: — been sexual with someone and then like, had, frequent or, like, strong desire to have sex with someone else. But, I do like to date other people, and explore kink with other people, and…um, like, make out and cuddle in non-sexual intimacy. (Lila mmhm’s) And like going on dates. Flirting.
[21:22] Lila proposes the word “libertine” as an alternative to the word “slut,” as inspired by this episode of Bawdy Storytelling.
libertine (noun) = one who is sexually free, and/or adventurous, an alternative to the synonym “slut.”
[22:22] How Stevie feels about “libertine” / how Lila feels about “cunt.”
Stevie: I like that.
Lila: It’s an old phrase. Stevie: I like it less than “slut.”
Lila: Yeah?
Stevie: Mmhm. To me it feels less about sex … and it feels more about your place and, role in the world.
Lila: The connotation is about sex.
Stevie: I know, but I’m just saying, to me— Lila: For you.
Stevie: — the word sounds. Like just the way, the consonants and stuff… How do you feel about the word “cunt.”
Lila: (beat) Eh.
Stevie: (laughs) What does that mean?
Lila: It means like, I don’t love it.
Stevie: (kind of shocked) Reallyy?
Lila: (overlapping) I don’t, I don’t love any of the words—
Stevie: Oooh, what do you, what do you call— Lila: But I use “pussy.”
Stevie: — yourself, you call, you call it a pussy?
Lila: I use pussy, yeah. But I don’t love any of them.
Stevie: See, when I say “pussy” it’s very like, in a joking or childlike way. (Lila hm’s) When I say “pussy.” When I say “cunt,” it’s like, “This is happening. You are fucking my cunt.” You know?
Lila: Yeah. . . There was a time in my life when I thought “slit” was sexy.
Stevie: Slllit!
Lila: Yeah.
Stevie: Holy shit. (Lila giggles) When I was in theatre in high school, we had to do this, word, or, what was it, whaddo they call, like warm-up exercises?
Lila: Mmhm, improv games.
Stevie: You probably know this. Where it was like, uh, “I slit a sheet a sheet I slit, and on this slitted sheet I sit.” (Lila laugh-gasps) And that, gives a whole new meaning to that, to the word slit.
Lila: Could you say that again?
I slit a sheet, a sheet I slit, and on this slitted sheet I sit.
Lila: Oh my. Oh my. (both laugh)
Stevie: Are you gonna start calling it a slit now?
Lila: Wow. Maybe… (Stevie giggles) I’ll see— I’ll see if I can work it in. (both giggle)
Stevie: That’s amazing. I bet you could try it with sexting first. What would, what are some adjectives that you would use? Before slit? … Like: wet begging slit? (Lila makes non-committal noises) I like “begging.”
Lila: (trying it out) Begging slit. Stevie: That’s a good one.
Stevie: (both laugh) That’s pretty good, that sounds great!
Lila: Yeah, it really does sound good. Thirsty—
Stevie: I think I like it ‘cause it sounds like clit.
Lila: Thirsty slit?
Stevie: Thirsty! But that’s— makes it sound dry.
Lila: Well. (cracks up) Well…
Stevie: “Come do something about this thirsty slit.”
Lila: Yeah. (giggles) Could you, could you uh, could you come and—
Stevie: Could you take care of this?
Lila: Just lend a—
Stevie: Just moisturize the slit, please?
[25:29] Stevie tells Lila a story about a sex club.
[28:39] Stevie on feeling your feelings.
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