This is Stevie. As photographed by Marlita on the Run.
42. nipple orgasms: horizontal with youtube’s lesbian sexpert
Welcome to horizontal, the podcast about intimacy of all kinds. It’s recorded while the opposite of vertical, but you probably know that. This episode was recorded in October, 2017, on horizontal does america, my 10,000 mile cross-country road trip and recording tour.
Stevie: Yeah, I just remembered my first kiss. Because I thought that I’d never— see! And I still tell the story as if it wasn’t my first kiss. But, when I was 12, me and this other girl played Spin the Bottle. Just two of us. (Lila giggles) Hilarious.
spin the bottle (noun) = a kissing game, usually played by pre-teens in the United States. A bottle is placed on the floor. The person whose turn it is gives the bottle a spin, and they are expected to kiss whomsoever the bottle neck points to when it stops spinning.
Lila: Oh, that’s so sweet!
Stevie: Oh, we thought it was brilliant, we were like, “Oh, we’ll just play Spin the Bottle, ‘cause like, that’s when you get to kiss, whatever.” With like a mustard bottle. We were like, “practicing for boyyys.” And then we just like, kept kissing each other, over and over again because—
Stevie: We were the only fucking two people! Lila: You were the only two people!
Stevie: And then um, we were like, dry humping a little bit and, I made her come, and I— completely repressed that memory.
*
Lila: And I was, too afraid to really do anything, like I was spooning her, and I was touching her, and I touched her breasts a little bit, and, I didn’t understand because it felt so different from mine and I didn’t understand that breasts had different textures.
Stevie: Whoa.
Lila: And hers were very hard. (Stevie hm’s) And later somebody said, “Oh, well, that’s because they’re fake.” I said, “I don’t know if they’re fake. But, I don’t know, they just felt different from mine.” And then they said, “Well, did they move when she was lying on her back?” and I said, “Well … no… but.” (makes an “I dunno” sound)
Stevie: So it kind of like, stunned you. Lila: And, so—
Lila: Yeah, I was, I was really surprised. And then, I think she, she knew that I was very inexperienced, and probably didn’t want to make moves or push me into anything (Stevie mm’s) so I think she was, taking, pace-setting cues from me (Stevie mm’s) and I didn’t know if I wanted to go down on her and therefore, I didn’t try to touch her, sexually, because I was afraid that if it came to it, and I couldn’t go down on her, then, that would be awful.
Stevie: Hm. Yeah. You’re acting like a straight girl. (laughs lightly)
Lila: Well! Sure. (both laugh a little)
Stevie: Yeah, I think that, I don’t know, no sex act is ever expected or guaranteed. And, you know, you can, obviously, I’m sure you— you, like preach consent and everything too, but, studies have shown that lesbians tend to ask for consent for each specific sex act, and straight girls and bisexuals, or— women that sleep with men, feel guilty for arousing someone and then not finishing the deed, or whatever.
Lila: Yeaaahh. Yeah.
Stevie: And so that’s— Lila: Well, because—
Stevie: What you were doing with— her.
Lila: Because we’ve been shamed and chastised for, for doing so.
Stevie: Yep, like— holy fucking shit, I don’t think blue balls actually exists — who the fuck — somebody made that up that just wanted, to be able to force people into, feeling guilty for not having sex with them.
blue balls (noun) = a phenomenon claimed / experienced by some penis-owners in which their organ feels pain after becoming aroused for a period of time without being brought to ejaculation. Often cited for the purposes of psychologically coercing another into sex.
Lila: I have definitely had situations in which my clit felt painful—
Stevie: Yeah.
Lila: And I knew that I needed to bring myself to orgasm for it not to be painful anymore.
Stevie: Yeah, for me it kind of feels like an itch. Less painful.
Lila: But, you know. They can do that themselves.
Stevie: What specific sex acts you are into has nothing to do with what your orientation is. Like, there are lesbians that do not enjoy being gone down on or going down on people.
Lila: Mmhm.
Stevie: Just as there are straight women who don’t enjoy penetrative sex. So, your, orientation has to do with who you are attracted to and what you feel like you are and what words make sense to you, not so much, if you like eating pussy or not. Like I identify as a lesbian and separate to that, I also identify as a pussy-lover. Like those, I guess have somewhat, something to do with each other, but they’re not mutually exclusive.
Lila: But you just said I was acting like a straight girl.
Stevie: Be— you were acting like a straight girl because you were like, “I’m not gonna touch her because if I arouse her too much, then I’ll have to go down on her.”
Lila: Ahhhh, right.
Stevie: So you were feeling like, “Oh I’m gonna not—“
Lila: Right.
Stevie: I’m gonna not do this thing that I really want to do—
Lila: Right.
Stevie: — and want to consent to, because then, it’ll be a slippery slope and I’ll have to do everything.
Lila: (chuckles) Right. Right.
Stevie: That’s why you were acting like a straight girl.
Welcome to horizontal, the podcast about intimacy of all kinds. It’s recorded while the opposite of vertical (but you probably know that).
This episode was recorded in October, 2017, on horizontal does america, my 10,000 mile cross-country road trip and recording tour. Through a series of fortunate events which I will call “six laughable fortuities,” in honor of Milan Kundera, I wound up at the house of Dr. Lindsey Doe in Missoula, Montana. And Stevie was there. (Go back and listen to the intro of episode 40: sexplanations, for the full story.) Stevie, like Dr. Doe, is a huge ginormous YouTube star, but they both somehow agreed to put on robes, lie down with a stranger and record a spontaneous podcast.
Stevie Boebi is the creator and host of the first Lesbian Sex Ed video series. She’s also a cat mom. (They make special guest appearances in her videos, including one in which she slightly annoys them for our amusement.)
Stevie… is gorgeous. She has long purple hair. And luscious lips. And a thousand watt smile. And pretty vivacious eyebrows. Detect you some admiration? Indeed. Indeed you do. She’s also hilarious, charming, winsome, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, and passionate about dismantling stereotypes, questioning identity politics, and teaching fact-based sex ed. As opposed to the other kind. Which exists in myriad forms, to our great chagrin.
Her full-on commitment to these topics is evinced by her (also ginormous) lexicon of YouTube videos with titles such as, “Lesbian Third Wheel,” “Can Lesbians do butt stuff?” “How to Survive a Breakup,” and “Gay Men Touched my Vagina for the First Time: Q&A and Afterthoughts.” (By the way, I definitely watched – and enjoyed – the “Gay Men Touch Vagina for the First Time” video before I met Stevie and only realized that she was the vagina model when I went to write this intro!)
Just to be uber clear though, a vagina refers to the internal anatomy of a pussy, and vulva refers to the external anatomy, so, unless they were fingering her (which it seems like one of them may have been?) they were actually touching: a vulva.
I suggest you fire up her YouTube channel when you wanna go down a rabbithole of loveliness, humor, pussy, and kickass straightforward tell-it-like-it-should-be sex ed. You can find her under Stevie Boebi on Twitter and Instagram, and just plain Stevie on YouTube.
In the first part of our conversation, we talk about getting punished for telling someone what a blow job is, her first girlfriend, daddy issues, her film festival premiere of “How to Eat Pussy,” being bi-romantic, repressed memories, molestation, a two-person game of Spin the Bottle, and the Love Feast.
Come lie down with us!
You’re already lying down?
Oh good.
If you enjoy lying down with Stevie and I, become a patron of the horizontal arts! Patreon is an innovation in the life of the artist. It’s a website that crowdsources income on a monthly basis. It can make it possible for me to continue creating independent, uncensored, ad-free homemade radio. My intention is to keep this podcast ad-free, but also to make this my primary career. Show me that you believe in my mission of cultivating intimacy across the world (and dislike ads)!
Links to Things:
Patron of the horizontal arts!
Stevie’s fantabulous (and funny) YouTube channel, where you can learn nearly everything about lesbian sex.
Stevie’s Instagram, where each post is like a haiku-essay.
Stevie’s Twitter, where she says things. The things on her mind. You know.
What number are you on the Kinsey scale? It’s a spectrum of heterosexuality to homosexuality. You should know about it. Your sexuality may be more fluid that you think.
The song “Mama Who Bore Me” from the Broadway musical Spring Awakening, in which pre-teen Wendla sings about the lack of sex education she received from her mother, and what that has done to her.
One of Stevie’s most popular instructional videos, “How to Eat Pussy”
UU, the non-creed, non-denominational, non-dogmatic church Lila went to in high school
Portishead: music to fuck to, if there ever was any
horizontal with Stevie in Missoula, Montana. Pure evidence of our adorability and horizontality.
Show Notes (feel free to share quotes/resources on social media, and please link to iTunes, this website, or my Patreon!):
iTunes link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/horizontal-with-lila/id1238031115&ls=1
website link: https://horizontalwithlila.com/
Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/horizontalwithlila
[0:00]
Lila: So I live in this house and — I’ve always had a fascination with sex and relationships and love, and when I was traveling in 2000…10, everywhere I went I wound up pretty much lying down talking with people about, about sex, love and relationships. And I joked that I should have a show called “Tell me Things.” (Stevie giggles lightly) And so this is kind of what that turned into.
Stevie: Cool!
Lila: And I initially started it with somebody else and then she, didn’t want to continue. And so it became just “horizontal with lila.”
Stevie: Cool!
Lila: I love how, how candid and how intimate and how … educational our conversations are at the house— because we’re sharing not because we’re like— teaching.
Stevie: Yeah.
Lila: You know, and that, that felt like a really beautiful model to… to learn and to, to figure out things about our — ourselves.
Stevie: (softly) Hm.
Lila: And I’m still like, really jury’s still out on me like, am I, am I a one or a two on the Kinsey scale? Am I like, do I want, could I have polyamorous relationships? Could, like — am I monogamish? Like I really don’t know. And so, a lot of it is me just— trying to explore as well, trying to to f— to see: all right, well, you know, Reid Mihalko says “date your species.” But what is my species? I don’t know. (laughs) Gonna have to do more exploring to figure that shit out.
Stevie: Oh man, that’s deep.
Lila: So. That I think is, a pretty good jist, and … thus far, up, actually up until I recorded with Lindsay today, all of my guests were people that I knew quite intimately (Stevie mm’s) and so I had a lot of partic— very particular curiosities that I knew that I wanted to, to talk about with them. And then, since this is kind of a new model, I still, follow my curiosity. Um. And if there’s— and I’m always trying to make it more of a conversation, because I’m always trying to make it more of what it’s like when we’re like lying down on the couch in the living room talking across at the end of the day.
[7:34] What did Stevie learn about sex growing up in Texas?
Stevie: Well I grew up in Texas—
Lila: Ooohh.
Stevie: So, that’s a fun one. So obviously they gave me really like, fact-based education.
Lila: (giggles) So it’s abstinence only—
Steve: Yup!
Lila: — and … leave room for Jesus?
Stevie: (laughs a little) Yeah, no, honestly, I was told by my health teacher that: if I swam in a pool with boys and wore a bikini, I would get pregnant.
Lila: What?
Stevie: I was told all kinds of bullshit. Um.
Lila: What else? That is— bizarre!
Stevie: It was ridiculous. Um, so, but my mom, when I was 2, told me what sex was. Obviously, it wasn’t pleasure based. It was just, you know: penis goes in vagina, and then that makes a baby. Then—
Lila: Ok, well—
[8:20]
Stevie: — people have sex all the time. And then— yeah. So, I knew what it was at least, but, the reasons why I’m a sex educator and the reason that I’ve always been passionate about it, is because when I was… 12? My little cousin, who was maybe like 9 or 10, asked me what a blow job was, annnd I told him, what it was. And then his mom found out, that I told him what a blow job was. And I got in trouble.
Lila: Aaaooh.
Stevie: And I always was like, “Fuck you Aunt Lisa.”
Lila: Mmhmm!
Stevie: I should be able to fucking tell your kid, who obviously feels more comfortable asking me than you, what a blow job is! I answered the question. What the fuck?
Lila: With accurate information!
Stevie: Right?! So…
Lila: Did you want to explain, to him, what a blow job is? (Lila giggles)
Stevie: I mean, yeah whatever! He had a question; I was gonna explain it!
Lila: No! I, I’m saying Aunt Lisa. “Aunt Lisa—“
Stevie: Yeah!
Lila: “—did you want to explain to him what a blow job was?”
Stevie: Fuck you, Lisa. (Lila chuckles) But also thank you, because it pissed me off so much that now I do what I do, so, that’s pretty cool.
Lila: And so, the retribution is, “I’m going to tell everyone, what sex is”?
Stevie: Yeah, I think it just really pissed me off, and then— that I would be punished for it, because, my mom had been telling me what sex was from a young age and, I just think that like punishing people for talking about sex is stupid and I always thought that. Even though I grew up in a very small town that was extremely religious. And I was extremely religious, I never saw it… as something that was weird? Even though I wasn’t even sexual? Like I wasn’t sexually active, or, whatever as a kid. As a teen.
Lila: And you were raised religious?
Stevie: Yeah, I was the most religious person in my family though. But yes, they were all religious. Like everyone in my town was Christian.
[10:11]
Lila: And so was it … was there a lot of social pressure— not to have sex before marriage?
Stevie: No. Yes and no. I think that anywhere where there is a lot of pressure to not have sex before marriage, everyone has sex before marriage.
Lila: Yyes!
Stevie: I mean, we can look at teen pregnancy stats to prove that.
Lila: Absolutely!
Stevie: Um, yeah so there was a lot of like, pressure to not talk about sex as educators and teachers and all of that, just like a lot of repression, which then made it to where everyone was having sex and, I wasn’t.
Lila: And you weren’t.
Stevie: Yeah.
Lila: And, do you think for, a lot of those folks it was really the taboo that drew them to it, because, for me it was never taboo. I also was explained early on, what sex was and, and, you know, that it was okay and, my mom said, you know, it’s between people who love each other and, if you wanna have sex, I hope you won’t while you’re in high school, but if you do, come to me, I’ll get you condoms I’ll get you, you know, whatever you need. Get you— we’ll get you on birth control.
Stevie: That is so cool.
Lila: And so that permission precluded transgression because, it wasn’t a transgressive act. (Stevie hm’s) You know, mom— she was gonna be fine with it. So I didn’t feel any desire to rebel sexually. (Stevie hm’s) And I wanted to have sex but I remember being very clear that I was waiting, not for marriage… and not for any specific milestone— I wasn’t waiting ‘til I got out of high school specifically, although I didn’t have sex in high school. I just wanted it to feel right. But, I didn’t wind up having sex when it felt right.
[12:01]
Why didn’t it feel right, the “first” time that Lila had sex? (As opposed to the first time that she had intercourse?)
[12:32]
If Lila’s relationship with her “first” lover were a movie, what would be the opening scene?
[13:11]
Stevie: Okay, so here’s the first rule: I don’t fuck anyone that drinks protein shakes. (Lila giggles) Also, side note, number two: Don’t fuck people who aren’t nice to you.
Lila: Yeah!
Stevie: And care about you.
Lila: Yeah… 19, that’s my only excuse.
Stevie: Oh my God, you don’t need an excuse. You did whatever you did (Lila laughs) and you made the choice and who gives a shit?
Lila: Ugh, I give a shit! But as Lindsey and I just spoke about, that was not my first intercourse. We just reframed that for me. That was not my first intercourse.
[14:09]
Stevie: If one more fucking guy asks me if I’ve ever slept with a guy, and if I haven’t then I must be a virgin.
Lila: Ohhh, boy.
Stevie: (under her breath) I’m gonna, die.
[14:22]
Lila: My first intercourse was receiving oral sex from a guy that I thought was wonderful and lovely, and it was— a delightful experience, it was like… it was like in The Wizard of Oz, when she goes into the (both giggle) and everything becomes Technicolor. (both laugh)
This is Stevie with balloons, as seen through the lens of Marlita on the Run.
Stevie: Holy shit!
Lila: That’s how it was— I was like, “Oooh. This is the best thing that ever was!”
Stevie: Wow.
Lila: You know, somebody licking me was amazing. And, so, reframing that for myself of— that being my first intercourse, allows me to have this beautiful fond memory of my first intercourse.
Stevie: Ohhww. That’s so great.
Lila: Which is so nice for me.
[14:59]
Stevie: Yeah, the Technicolor moment for me would definitely be getting my nipples pierced.
Lila: (breathy) Whhhat? Tell me…
Stevie: (chuckles) I always say that that’s like, the best sexual decision I’ve ever made in my life, is getting my nipples pierced. (It probably isn’t, but…)
Lila: Were they sensitive before?
Stevie: I had more sensitivity on my skin’s tit tissue than I did on my nipple. Like I could twist my nipple all the way around and wouldn’t feel anything.
Lila: Yes.
Stevie: And then when I would like, do the same thing to my skin anywhere else, it would be more sensitive. So I had no feeling.
Lila: Yeah, I had a lot of numbness. Up until recently.
Stevie: So then I got them pierced and, locked myself in a room and masturbated all day, every fuckin’ day for like seven days?
Lila: Whhhoooooooooaaa.
Stevie: And I could have nipple orgasms. It was fucking great.
nipple orgasms (noun) = the actual, physiological orgasmic response, stemming solely from stimulation of the nipples.
Lila: (gasp) Noooo!
Stevie: And now it’s been— how long ago did I get them pierced, maybe like seven eight years? And now they’re like starting to numb again. So I might take them out and get them re-pierced.
Lila: Whhhoooa!
[15:59] Stevie describes the process of having a nipple orgasm and the experience of different types of orgasms.
[18:47]
Stevie: But my grandma also said, you know, if she knew that sex is what made babies, she would’ve never had all four of her kids. She didn’t know that that’s what caused pregnancy! Like, had no idea until after the fourth one.
[19:13] Lila references the Broadway musical Spring Awakening and the song “Mama Who Bore Me.” In it, the ingenue, Wendla, asks her mother about how babies are conceived. Her mother is embarrassed, and so she is given no sexual education. Not knowing what sex is and that it creates babies, Wendla becomes pregnant.
Mama who bore me / Mama who gave me / No way to handle things / Who made me so sad
Mama, the weeping / Mama the angels / No sleep in Heaven, or Bethlehem
Some pray that, one day, Christ will come a-callin’ / They light a candle, and hope that it glows
And some just lie there, crying for him to come and find them / But when he comes, they don’t know how to go
Mama who bore me / Mama who gave me / No way to handle things / Who made me so bad
Mama, the weeping / Mama, the angels / No sleep in Heaven, or Bethlehem
Mama Who Bore Me
No Description
[19:49]
Stevie: Recently, I um, premiered my video called “How to Eat Pussy” at a film festival. Annnd, it was not a sex film festival. Annnd, it was like an audience full of people, like, parents with their kids and shit. And like, afterwards I went to the bathroom, and you know, when people leave a theatre, everybody goes to the bathroom.
How To Eat Pussy THE RIGHT WAY – Lesbian Sex 101
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Lila: Of course.
Stevie: And a few different parents, like, walked up to me, like, there and on the red carpet and was like, “Loved your video; it was a little awkward ‘cause I’m like, here with my kid!” And I was like, “Why? Is that awkward?” (Lila mm’s) “Your child has a vulva, I’m assuming? Or, is probably going to come into contact with a vulva—“
Lila: At some point. Stevie: “— in their fucking life.”
Stevie: “Why is that weird?” And they’re like, “You’re right!” and I’m like, “Spread it.”
[20:44] “Parents and children are not supposed to be anywhere near each other when desire is present.”
Note: Unable to find attribution for this quote, although it may have been Esther Perel.
[22:15]
Stevie: I was sick of being a virgin, when I was— 17? Annd, I found a boy— so, I’m a lesbian, for listeners. I found a boy that, I was working at Sonic Drive-In at the time, if you’ve been there.
Lila: Mm-hm.
Stevie: As a carhop, so I was on my little rollerskates, and I went out, and he had like, long hair and he had a guitar seat-belted in his front seat and I was like, “All right, fine, I’m gonna fuck you.” (Lila laughs) Umm, I’m sick of having this virginity thing— I’ve also never been kissed. Just didn’t have any, desire for anyone.
Lila: And you—
Stevie: Turns out, I was a repressed homosexual.
Lila: Okay, so, to be clear, you didn’t have desire for him either.
Stevie: No, I was just, I had a desire to like, get rid of my virginity, I was sick of having it.
Lila: So you just chose this—
Stevie: Yup.
Lila: — person with the guitar.
Stevie: Yeahm. I decided that morning, mm, I’m gonna find someone soon, and then I’m just gonna be like, “Hey! Take this please, I do not want it anymore.” (Lila giggles) Umm, and, yeah, we had sex, it was fucking awful, I cried the whole time, I bled.
Lila: Oh God.
Stevie: I mean, he was sweet about it, he was like, asking me if I was okay the whole time, you know— which I was like—
Lila: Was he a virgin too?
Stevie: (decisively) No. Found out, a week later, he had a girlfriend. And he was cheating on her with me, which, I still didn’t give a fuck, because, I was just using you to take my virginity anyway. Um—
Stevie: — super unhealthy. Lila: Was there a condom involved?
Stevie: Um, no. I didn’t learn about safe sex ‘til way fuckin’ later.
Lila: Man, he’s got so many— strikes. Stevie: So, yeah, and he had—
Stevie: — the biggest dick. Holy shit.
Lila: Oh no.
Stevie: It was like 10 inches. It was fucking ridiculous. (Lila gives a sympathetic-pain laugh) So that happened—
Lila: So you didn’t— Stevie: — and I was like—
Stevie: “Whoo, finally! Lost my virginity! Thank God!”
Lila: You didn’t choose good training wheels.
[24:54] Stevie didn’t know that girls could masturbate until she was 18.
[25:28] How did Stevie come into her own and learn that she liked girls?
Stevie: I started masturbating. And like, watching different porn and then like, met a girl and it was like, “Oh my God I’m in love with her! But I don’t even like my own vagina; how am I gonna like somebody else’s vagina?” And thennn, I tasted pussy and came out the next day.
Lila: And came out the next day?
Stevie: Mmhm. I was like, “Oh! This makes fucking sense, Jesus Christ. I’M GAAAAY!”
[26:34]
Stevie: The only time, I can remember touching myself as a kid was, when I was in the bathtub, I would like, play with Barbie dolls and like, little toy soldiers, and to like, punish them, I would like, put them in my vulva. When they were like, bad. To the other one. (Lila laughs) Like the other Barbies, like I’d put Barbie, Barbie’s face in my vulva, like as a punishment. Sooo, that’s the only experience, any memory I have of like—
Lila: That’s amazing.
Stevie: — touching myself at all.
[27:12] The two different boyfriends Stevie had after she lost her virginity — one who was feminine and they mostly had outercourse.
outercourse [noun] = sexual and erotic acts intended to induce pleasure without penetrating the orifices of the body (can include dry humping, caressing, oral sex, etc.).
[28:02] On figuring out that we could touch ourselves.
Lila: So there really just wasn’t pleasure… in your sexual relationships with boys.
Stevie: I mean, no. But— not completely.
Lila: Well, aside from the, just, pure, physiological, when this is rubbed it feels good.
Stevie: Yyeah. But I thought that boys had to do it or you couldn’t get off. I didn’t know I could do it. I don’t know why I didn’t go, “Oh, why don’t— I can just do this to myself—“
Lila: — I’m not —
Stevie: I just thought that they couldn’t— I— noone told me that I could do it. I thought that boys masturbated by themselves, and then they also had sex with girls, and then girls, couldn’t masturbate, but they could get off if they were having sex with boys.
Lila: Wow.
Stevie: So weird.
Lila: I’m not sure when I realized that I could touch myself— and that it felt good. (Stevie hm’s) ‘Cause it was always something else.
Stevie: Obviously early, ‘cause you were putting your butt up under that water spout.
Lila: Well, but I wasn’t touching myself.
Stevie: Ohhhh, right.
Lila: I was just letting the water do it or rubbing against the beanbag… chair.
[29:17] Stevie tells Lila the story of how she met the first girl that she fell in love with.
Stevie: Oh man. So. I was in college. In a philosophy class. And she sat behind me. Annnd we never really made eye contact, and, she dressed and looked like a boy, so I thought she was a boy. Annnd, we would like pass notes back and forth to each other, and we would just like, make fun of our professor, who we thought was an idiot. And like, write little web comics, or she would the first square, and then I would write the second square of what these little — guys were saying to each other. (Lila chuckles) And then we would like, talk on AIM Instant Messenger— I was like, super cute and shy and young, and she was in high school. She was 17 and I was, 19. So I didn’t like, I only had that one class with her and then she immediately like, had to go back to school, so we never really had face-to-face conversations. Anyway, one day she told me she was a girl. And I was like, “Oh, c-c-c-c-cool. Um… what?”
Lila: Wow.
Stevie: And then I was like, “Wait, I have a crush on you. I’m not a lesbian! What’s happening!” And then, kept hanging out with her and then, fell in love, and started having sex. […]
Lila: So, the first time you have sex with this girl is the first time you’re having sex with somebody that you love.
Stevie: Yeah. Well, I don’t know. I think, that I could potentially be bi-romantic, (Lila mmhm’s) because I think I was having crushes on the boys.
bi-romantic (noun) = an identity in which a person feels romantic love for male and female-gendered people, though not necessarily sexual desire for both.
Stevie: I think I loved them. But, I don’t know if it was just Daddy issues. Who knows.
Lila: Hmm.
Stevie: But… yeah, I remember. So the first time we had sex, I just went down on her. […] And then I made her come, and I was like, “Can I do it again?” And then I did it again. And then—
Lila: Right away?!
Stevie: Yeah, oh, I was so in. As soon as I went down on her I was like, “This makes sense! Everything makes sense! The world is split in two, what the fuck!”
Lila: Technicolor Wizard of Oz.
Stevie: Yeah, what the fuck. So then, the first time she fucked me, like finger-fucked me, I remember vividly remember just like, sitting up and being like, “What the fuck are you doing to me?” (both laugh) What the fuck? Um, ‘cause no one had ever, like, touched my g-spot before.
Lila: As in, “What is this sorcery?”
Stevie: What is this sorcery?
[31:54] Lila and Stevie on overhearing other people have sex, and being overheard.
[33:02] Stevie on Daddy issues.
[33:47]
Lila: I wonder… do you think there’s a situation in which, you could receive that sort of non-sexual paternal male attention that would— that would feel good and that would feel healthy?
Stevie: Yeah maybe, I was thinking about getting a professional cuddler, if you’ve heard of those.
Lila: In fact, my housemate Tiger is one; we did an episode together.
Stevie: Oh wow, that’s so cool! Yeah, I was thinking about doing that so I could learn how to accept male attention that’s not, because, the only time men touch me now is like, because they’re assaulting me in public, you know?
Lila: Oh my gosh.
Stevie: And so that’s kind of like, building up, like a real negative feeling—
Lila: Ohhh, yeah.
Stevie: — about men. Um—
Lila: Awful. Stevie: And I don’t really like that I’m—
Stevie: — feeling uncomfortable and judging an entire fucking gender. That’s not cool.
[34:49] Lila on touch hunger.
Lila: Since I was very young I, I recognized that there was, a pretty dire, desperate lack of nonsexual touch in our society.
Stevie: Ooogh, so true.
Lila: — and—
Stevie: Also, nonsexual nudity.
Lila: Yes. But that, the touch was really, directly harming us. (Stevie mmhms) The lack of that touch. And, maybe I noticed because I had spent some time — my mom’s Brazilian — and I had visited, maybe every two/three years. And the family there is so very affectionate. Just— normally, just just in the day-to-day, will be, you know, hugging, and draping an arm over the other and, you know, holding arms or, linking arms, holding hands. And, the fact that I made note of it, that it was so surprising to me… My cousin, when I told him that I was going, later in the summer, to Connection Camp, and he said, “Oh, what is that? What does that m— mean?” I said, “Oh, it’s a, it’s a camp for adults — summer camp for adults, designed, with all these different activities, that allow people to connect authentically with each other.” And he said, “That’s so sad.” I said, “Nono, it’s really quite lovely!” And he said, “It’s sad that you need it … in America.”
[36:24] On families that force kids to hug their grandma and such.
[36:54]
Lila: I was also a very… how shall I say? Discerning, child? And… there were laps I did not want to sit on and so I did not sit on them. And my mom, because she had been sexually-abused as a child…by, older men, friends of the family— that she asked for, you know, she wanted the attention, ‘cause she never had attention from her father. (Stevie mm’s) Because of that, she was always very very protective of me, and very wary and tried never to leave me alone with any men. (Stevie hm’s) And you know what? I don’t remember it but, I had a babysitter who was in high school, who was a woman, who later told me that she touched me, when I was a kid.
Stevie: Whoa.
Lila: Yeah.
Stevie: How did that come up?
Lila: She’s very religious now. And she called to, kind of, I guess, confess to me.
Stevie: Whoa.
Lila: And I was pissed.
Stevie: Obviously.
Lila: No—
Stevie: (overlapping) Well I guess there’s lots of things you can feel, but.
Lila: Yeah, but I was. I was pissed because I didn’t remember it and she told me.
Stevie: You were mad that you didn’t remember it why?
Lila: No. I was, I was—
Stevie: Did you want to remember?
Lila: No no, I was angry with her, that now I had to carry this knowledge, that I didn’t remember— that I hadn’t remembered before.
Stevie: Mm, because you were like, “I could just live my life.”
Lila: Not knowing that.
Stevie: Yeah but would you? Lila: Not knowing that my favorite babysitter—
Stevie: Do you really think that that memory would never come back to you?
Lila: You know—
Stevie: ‘Cause I am having some—
Lila: Yeah?
Stevie: — fuckin’ shit go down right now in my life— well, for the past like, six months to a year where all kinds of fuckin’ memories that I repressed are coming back. But maybe you would have wanted to remember for yourself.
Lila: I wonder. I seriously wonder, Stevie, when, if, they’re coming back. Because I’m 35 now.
Stevie: Mm. Yeah.
Lila: And— I haven’t had any… (Stevie hm’s) resurface.
[39:03] Stevie on her first kiss, a memory she repressed.
[40:30] Why does Stevie think her memories have started resurfacing now?
Stevie: Now that I’m safe, and financially secure and have a home, and am not like, homeless or whatever, going through trauma all the time, my brain’s like, “All right, I guess we’ll stop disassociating and like, repressing everything.” Ya know?
Lila: Yeah, I remember receiving a Structural Integration session from someone I knew and … I remember him saying— because, you know, they’re palpating parts of your body, usually really painful parts where you’ve stored things, and, speaking to different aspects of your life, and I remember him saying, “When do you think that we deal with trauma?”
Stevie: Hm.
Lila: And, I said, “I don’t know.” And he said, “When it’s safe to do so.”
[41:57] Stevie on why she thinks the Kinsey scale is bullshit.
[42:19] The church Lila went to in high school: UU, a non-denominational, non-creed, non-dogmatic church
[43:49]
Lila: And so I went to one of these cons and I think it was the same one at which there was a Love Feast. (Stevie hm’s) Do you know the Love Feast? (Stevie mm-mm’s) Where you have an array of delicious things, and fruit, chocolate, and all finger foods— and you can’t feed yourself.
Stevie: Whoa!
Lila: And this one— I’ve heard of—
Stevie: I’m fucking doing that as soon as I get back to L.A.
Lila: It’s amazing.
Stevie: I love it. […]
Lila: And so this one was silent. (Stevie gasps) Yeah. Which w— made it just way better. And it was also—
Stevie: Yep! Yep yep yep yep yep. Doing it. Lila: And it was also! (gasps)
Lila: Stevie, it was the first time I ever heard Portishead.
Stevie: Oh, fucking Portishead! That used to be the only thing I would have sex to.
Lila: And, and I definitely had a, “What is this sorcery?” moment. You know? So Portishead is playing, and, and we’re feeding each other and we can’t speak, so we have to do, you know, non-verbal consent. (Stevie mmhm’s)
[45:00] Lila on her first experience meeting a girl she was attracted to, at a UU con.
Lila: And there was this girl. I recently was at my mom’s house and looking through m— my old, my old memory boxes, and I found a photograph of her. Her name was Avril. And I was just— I really— wanted to touch her, and hug her and, we even kissed, once. And she had such nice lips! They were so soft… And, she was very very— just had been given very physically pretty features. In such a way that, you know, there was no need for makeup. She was just, she was just sort of made like a cherub, person. And she, dressed in, you know, kind of pretty androgynously, in kind of flannel shirts and, and—
Stevie: (giggles) So, gay.
Lila: And she had a nose ring. (giggles) I mean, I don’t know, I don’t wanna presume—
Stevie: Yeah…
Lila: — to say that she’s gay, she might have been bisexual.
Stevie: No, I didn’t say she is gay; I said she dressed gay.
Lila: She did; she did dress gay.
Stevie: Flagging.
flagging (verb) = the act of signifying sexual orientation or interests through some bit of costuming (e.g. handkerchiefs, keys, collars, and currently: Crave Vesper vibrator necklaces). More prevalent during the eras in which that orientation or interest is considered more taboo — for instance, the gay male hanky code of the 60s and 70s.
hanky code (noun) = a color-coded system of handkerchiefs worn by gay males during the 60s and 70s, to discreetly signal to potential partners about the sexual acts and positions they were interested in engaging in.
[46:45] Lila tells the story of a woman she had a crush on in her early 20s. And Stevie schools her about why she was acting like a straight girl.
42. nipple orgasms: horizontal with youtube’s lesbian sexpert
Welcome to horizontal, the podcast about intimacy of all kinds. It’s recorded while the opposite of vertical, but you probably know that. This episode was recorded in October, 2017, on horizontal does america, my 10,000 mile cross-country road trip and recording tour.
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