34. that was a big cucumber: horizontal with a gay reiki master

This is Josh (& another beloved friend, JJ) at Connection Camp. They were… on the purple team.

34. that was a big cucumber: horizontal with a gay reiki master

Welcome in to horizontal, the podcast about intimacy that’s recorded while: the opposite of vertical. My guest and I wear cozy robes and lie down, shoulder to shoulder, with the microphone positioned above us. It’s as though we’ve talked all night, and we’re still stargazing, but the sun is just starting to make itself known in yellows and oranges around the horizon.

This is me (and my ex-boyfriend Alex) at Connection Camp. We were … on the orange team.

Josh:  I’ve held this story and I’ve …….. been wanting to let go of it, but I don’t think that I’m quite there yet. (Lila mmhm’s) Um, that my sexuality is just a broken thing in my life. (Lila mewls) And that it doesn’t work. And that, when I try, I usually just end up being disappointed, so I’ve— spent many years … It has been a pattern in my life that I, can go, y’know, five, six, I think I’ve— seven years in my 20s … without, so much as, like a physical contact, really. That doesn’t feel good. It’s nice, now that I have, practices that bring more, intimacy with people? So I get cuddling and, you know, I get physical intimacy in that way.

Lila:  Yeah. Like Circling?

Josh:  More so than I did in the past, yeah, like Circling. And then, this kind of community is, there’s also a lot of Cuddle Parties, and, things like that, soooo uhh—

Lila:  (fondly) Yeah.

Josh:  Just being in any sort of intentional community setting, uhhh, I find that there tends to be more of an— more of an awareness, around the need for physical connection. And more of a—

Lila:  A comfort with platonic touch, perhaps?

Josh:  Yeah. So, I do find that I have more of that, and I find I I miss— sexuality less because of that…or, well, no that’s not true.

Lila:  But, maybe it makes it easier to be a person.

*

Josh:  The hardest part about going that amount of time without any sex in my life— is not so much the sex, or… the… sexual stimulation? Li— the— absence of that … is… tolerable? I don’t know, that’s just, sounds like an awful word. (laughs)

Lila:  You can tolerate it; I get it.

Josh:  But ummm, the, hardest part is usually, just not having the physical contact, and feeling, that that uh, tenderness, is absent from my life.

*

Josh:  Lately, I have been doing a lot of reiki on my penis, and m’balls. (laughs)

Lila:  That’s beautiful!

Josh:  And instead of masturbating, I’ve been watching — ‘cause I think I have a little bit of an issue with porn, probably — but I’ve been watching and instead of masturbating, I’ve just been doing energy work while I watch the porn.

Lila:  Huh!

Josh:  Annnd, your penis responds— like I, get an erection, like, all of that stuff, from, just from the energy, ‘cause I’m moving sort of this sexual energy through it.

Lila:  Can you take me through that—

Josh:  And that’s been really interesting.

Lila:  —process?

Josh:  Through the process?

Lila:  So, you— you choose a video.

Josh:  Mm, yeah.

Lila:  You’re watching on your phone?

Josh:  I usually— I use my computer and I— there’s, I usually just use Pornhub, which is a mass— you know, um— so I find a video that I wanna watch and I lay down annnd I …

Lila:  Does it follow a typical pattern, what you watch?

Josh:  Uh… Yes, I guess, pornographically-speaking, I tend to, I like, raw, more— aggressive? Porn. (Josh giggles, Lila mmhm’s) More passionate porn. Not— I don’t like people— I don’t like to watch people being degraded, but, I like … the sounds of sex turn me on a lot more than— no that’s not true. The sounds of sex are are a huge stimulant for me, and so, Iiii like to watch more aggressive porn because I find that the bottoms are usually more vocal and uhh— and connected to what’s happening instead of just like, (bored voice) “Uh, oh yeah. Oh. Oh yeah. Give it to me.” (Lila and Josh laugh) Um.

Lila:  Have you ever tried just listening to it?

Josh:  Just listening to sex? To porn?

Lila:  Yeah, listening to porn and doing your energy work?

Josh:  MMmm. Not for a whole video, but I certainly have— I do close my eyes for a while and just listen…

Lila:  As you’re watching, do you put yourself in the place of one of the actors? Imagining that you are one of the actors?

Josh:  No. No I think that— it’s interesting, I think that watching porn for me seems very diff— very separate, from the act of sex, ‘cause I don’t feel like— I’m stimulated by the visual.

Lila:  So you are as a voyeur in the situation.

voyeur (noun) = one who gets aroused by watching others engage in sexual activities, sometimes from the vantage point of being “hidden.”

Josh:  Yeah. I’m more stimulated by watching, what others are doing.

Lila:  Are you voyeuristic in general; have you gotten to explore that?

Josh:  I’ve never gotten to explore that, but I imagine that yes I am.

Lila:  I am a little bit as well.

Josh:  I believe that that would be— I know that I’m not … I don’t have a lot of jealousy or anything like that, and so I’ve certainly been, more prone to having an open relationship and I— in the past that’s just meant that, you know, that partners do things with other people and we’re— open and honest about it. But, it’s never progressed to a point where we were doing stuff…together, or that they were doing it with someone else and I could watch. But uhhh— I do think that that would be appealing. […]

Lila:  So you’ve chosen a video, and you put it on the computer, and you sit down, and then what is the process of this energy work?

Josh:  I usually just start by …. uhhh, like really checking in with the pubic area. The main access point for the root chakra, I guess? I usually start there, right above.

root chakra (noun) = the area of the body at the base of the spine (between the genitals and the anus and along the first three vertebra), considered in yogic philosophy to be the energy center that correlates to grounding, safety, home life, and survival (basic human needs, money, etc.).

Lila:  You mean, in the perineum?

Josh:  Yeah, like your pubic area, li— right right above your genitals.

Lila:  Ok.

Josh:  So, it’s like— yeah.

Lila:  Above the pubic bone.

Josh:  Right. And then— I usually just start by putting energy there, ‘cause that’s, a lot of, uhhh— and then…I don’t know, there’s a lot of, cupping of the balls, there’s a lot of energy going to the balls, annnd as, stimulation starts, Iiii, will then, just sort of like, hold onto the penis, shaft. But not really so much, like I’ll just like … and just hold.

Lila:  Two, two hands—

Josh:  Just hold it with two hands—

Lila:  — curled around—

Josh:  — and feel, yeah, feel the energy flowing. Uh, and then there’s other, sort of energy points, below, like—  let’s say the top of the— below the balls, the top of the taint. Sort of, so, like, tucking in, I guess more towards where the perineum would be, right, um.

taint (noun) = the perineum, the area of the body between the genitals and the anus, nicknamed the ‘taint because it ain’t the balls, it ain’t the anus, or similarly, it ain’t the pussy and it ain’t the ass.

Lila:  And when you say that, you’re connecting to the energy that’s flowing, what’s the process of that? Are you imagining— imagining a current, are you imagining something, are you—

Josh:  Oh no, there’s physical sensations that I feel. So I…it’s really w— it’s an interesting process when you’re giving yourself energy work because you can feel an outside energy coming in through you and coming out of your hands, but you can also feel how your body is responding to that energy— which you can’t do when you— are working on someone else. So, you get a lot of information all at once, ‘cause you’re getting— a sense of— the quality of the energy that’s coming through and then you’re also getting a sense of the quality of how you’re body’s responding.

Lila:  That’s interesting, that reminds me of: when I was, younger, I would do a little, thought exercise, where I would run my fingertips along the soft part of my arm (Josh mmhm’s) and I would try to feel it from the finger’s perspective, and then, from the arm’s perspective.

Josh:  Right. Yes. Same thing. Definitely. Yeah. So…it’s pretty much the same in all energy work— for me what I’ve noticed, is, if I start with my hand on…the body. By putting my hand on the body and in the place of of energy work, I can begin to feel with my hand, what the energy of the other— so whether it’s my body or another person, I can feel more, what, so I’m, I’m starting out by sort of feeling outside of myself, and feeling: What do I feel through my hand, from the other person or from, my body part, if I’m doing it on myself. So when— when it’s on someone else, there’s a— feels like there’s energy coming… at the hand. It feel like, by putting my hand there, I’m imagining, sort of, the— right now, I have my hand on Lila’s knee, and I’m imagining that, what I feel, it feels like energy coming from the hip, that is coming up the leg, and towards, my palm, and I can feel energy also coming from the ankle, so everything is sort of moving towards that. And, just by, sort of, being… in that, flow? I guess? Being open, and in that flow, I can start to get a sense of quality, of what is— what’s flowing towards me, and thennn… as that sensation strengthens and f— the feeling becomes bigger, there’s a point, and I can feel it right now, where the energy that’s coming out, starts to get bigger, like the response, and then when that happens, I can actually then, I can actually just pull away, I don’t need to be touching anymore, because I’ve noticed that when the energy’s coming out and doing more of a flow and a healing, that actually is stronger when I’m not physically touching.

Lila:  If you’re trying to release energy?

Josh:  Yeah, if you’re just allowing an open flow of energy, so that whatever need— whatever healing needs to happen is happening, like, through you. Now, I guess I would say I’ve noticed, umm, when doing it as a, like a sexual sort of healing, or a, replacement for masturbation, even— I do it all hands-on, ‘cause you’re getting more of the physical touch as well, and that’s stimulating, obviously, so I don’t— tend to, like, remove my hand, from the situation. But— but I do think it starts the same in really more of, putting my hand in different places and there’s more of a listening, that’s happening with the hand, in terms of what energy is coming, at my hand. And then as I get a— as there becomes more of a— familiarity? with what it is I’m experiencing, in that energy, then I’m able to … back off a little and allow … energy to come through the other way. It seems l— yeah, it’s like there’s an energy shift. It feels like it starts coming out— and it’s more of an information gathering, and then once that builds to a point where it feels like there’s something to meet, then there’s an energy shift and the energy starts moving the other direction.

Lila:  It sounds like you are—

Josh:  I think. (chuckles)

Lila:  — stoking the arousal, and then, just kind of using it to light you up. Rather than, (Josh mm’s) taking it to a peak and dropping down.

Josh:  Yeah.

Lila:  Sort of like what I — I know very little — but what I know of Taoist sexual practices.

Josh:  Well, I’ve noticed doing it, doing this way that, there certainly is still— while there isn’t a— I wouldn’t say— there doesn’t feel like there’s a, point of release, as there is when you ejaculate, but it feels like the energy builds up to a point….. and then it’s done, and it just dissipates.

Lila:  And how do you feel afterwards?

Josh:  And I just know, like, basically, you could be hard and … and it’s going and then suddenly, it’s just like (gentle voice) “Ok, and now we’re done.” And everything goes away and umm, afterwards I feel … usually very energized, just much more awake, in the chakra areas of the root and sexual. I can feel often— well that’s not fair, that’s ‘cause I was— I was also, sticking a cucumber up my ass, but— (Josh laughs, Lila laughs)

Lila:  Wait, what were you gonna say about it?

Josh:  Um, that, I can feel more of a— an awakeness of my prostate, inside, li— I can feel what the inside of my body feels more like.

Lila:  Right, but you were, you were stimulating it, so you’re—

Josh:  (overlapping) So, so I’ve been doing that too, but yeah.

Lila:  A cucumber! A big cucumber?

Josh:  I mean, I have it.

Lila:  A little cucumber? (both laugh)

Josh:  It’s a good-size cucumber.

Lila:  Oh my God! Oh MY! Oh yikes! Wow. (Josh laughs) Oh boy.

Josh:  It feels good.

Welcome in to horizontal, the podcast about intimacy that’s recorded while: the opposite of vertical. My guest and I wear cozy robes and lie down, shoulder to shoulder, with the microphone positioned above us. It’s as though we’ve talked all night, and we’re still stargazing, but the sun is just starting to make itself known in yellows and oranges around the horizon.

Horizontal aims to make private conversations public, in order to dispel shame, diminish loneliness, and cultivate connection.

This is Josh as the Hindu elephant-God Ganesha.

In this episode, I lie down with my friend Josh. Josh and I met at Circling, which is a sort of inter-relational meditation.

Whereas in meditation with oneself, I will sit silently with my eyes closed, observing my internal landscape, the sensations In my body, my cloud-thoughts as they pass and my hamster-wheel thoughts as they come back around, In Circling, I have my attention not only on myself, but also on the others around me, how their presence and the shifts in the room affect me, the stories I make up about them (sometimes thought of as assumptions), and what I imagine about their internal landscapes. In Circling, I try to hold an awareness of myself while also endeavoring to be deeply present with others. When it’s done right, it seems to me to be a practice of deep empathy, both for what it might feel like to be someone else, and also, empathy and a certain kind of respect for what it feels like to be me in the moment. A reverence for the truth of the moment.

That is the context in which Josh and I met. And at first, I had the story that Josh didn’t really like me very much. It is a vibe I sometimes get from particular gay men and from pretty, unkind women.

I’ve never asked him how he felt when we first met, but I was delighted to learn, when he hugged me some months into Circling together at Amy Silverman’s Connection Movement nights in New York City, that he had a positive regard for me.

Josh is a fashion design-trained, floridly creative visual artist of many mediums, baker, cook, and new Circling facilitator. In Circling, he acts as an emotional lightning rod and visionary. He often expresses through sound, vibration, and convulsions, emotions that feel present in the room but latent – that others are either unwilling to express or unaware they exist. When I say that he is a visionary Circler, I mean that he literally has *visions*. He’ll often have his eyes closed and when he opens them, he sometimes shares the images that came to him during someone’s expression – there’s usually something uncanny and relevant about it. Sometimes an object in the image is meaningful to the person, at other times he seems to intuit what they desire in the moment but haven’t thought to ask for. I often feel awe when he describes these images, and hearing him so bold with his associations has opened a gate for me to be bolder with mine.

We recorded this episode in his trailer at the Omega Institute, an expensive spiritual adult version of short-term sleepaway camp. Josh was towards the tail end of his work commitment there when I came to visit. I arrived late and tired, so we decided to record in the morning, during a rainstorm. The pitter-patter of the rain on the tin trailer is a sweet lulling to me. (I won’t be offended if you fall asleep. I’ll never know!)

In the first half of our episode together, we talk about unintentional celibacy, Josh’s first gay stirrings, spandex guy, the right vegetables to put up your butt, and porn energy work. For some of my favorite yoga people, who have been asking me, “Which episode is the gayest?” Get ready. It is this one. Here. I’ll prove it. Come lie down with us.

Josh paints

If you enjoy lying down with Josh and I, become a patron of the horizontal arts! Patreon is an innovation in the life of the artist. It’s a website that crowdsources income on a monthly basis. It can make it possible for me to continue creating independent, uncensored, ad-free homemade radio.

Become a Patron!

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Links to Things:

Patron of the horizontal arts!

My horizontal does america tour, on which I recorded this episode!

Circling (the practice that Josh and I share)

Omega Institute, the expensive spiritual adult summer camp where Josh was working when we recorded this episode

The Connection Movement, the locus of Circling in New York City, curated by Amy Silverman

Magical Awakening — the energy healing (reiki) that Josh practices

Cuddle Parties (episodes with both of the founders of Cuddle Party, Reid Mihalko & Marcia B., coming later in the season!)

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Show Notes (feel free to share quotes/resources on social media, and please link to iTunes, this website, or my Patreon!):

iTunes link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/horizontal-with-lila/id1238031115&ls=1

website link: https://horizontalwithlila.com/

Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/horizontalwithlila

[8:38]

Lila:  So you’ve been here for almost six months.

Josh:  I have. I’ve been here for a little over five months, yeah.

Lila:  Has that been a sexless … five months?

Josh:  (laughs, then Lila laughs) I mean: it’s been a sexless five years, so, um. I did give a blow job in the sauna to a participant. That’s about the most sex I’ve had in five years—

Lila:  That sounds… hot, but, temperature-wise.

[8:58]  Josh tells the story of the blow job in the sauna.

[9:33]  Why has it been so long since Josh had sex?

[12:22]  The way that Lila experiences Josh’s sensuality at Circling.

[12:54]

Josh:  I imagine that — a lot of the, work that I’ve done in the past three years through meditation and Circling annnd, let’s say conscious… thought, I imagine that my experience … in sex would be a lot different than it was in the past and that I feel, like I would connect… more to the physical act of sex than I have in the past.

Lila:  What has happened in the past? Do you dissociate?

Josh:  It’s very hard f— it’s one of the biggest areas of my life that it’s very difficult for me to actually be present in the moment. I— have noticed that even— I’ve worked on this a lot with myself, but I’ve noticed even in masturbation, theee— there’s something, somewhere in my head that is saying, like— if there’s an erection, then, ejaculation needs to ha— like, there’s a goal. And you need to get there. (laughs)

Lila:  Yeah.

Josh:  And if you don’t have an erection, then there’s something wrong, ‘cause you’re not going to be able to meet that goal. And so, my experience in the past has often been: I’m very sensual, very sexual, I can be very present in feelings, and sensations, annnd, I guess I would say, I imagine that my penis doesn’t remove itself from the goal of ejaculation. So, my penis doesn’t involve itself in that sensuality. (Lila mm’s) Which isn’t— is that true? Yeah. Which isn’t really so much of a problem for me. I guess I just haven’t… figured out how to… I haven’t figured out how to communicate my sexual experience to other people so that, if I don’t get an erection, that doesn’t deter people. ‘Cause everyone seems to think that— that. I dunno, my experience in having sex with men and not getting an erection is that there’s not a repeat of that, because they feel like I’m not—

Lila:  That into it.

Josh:  — there’s something wrong and that I’m not— Yeah. When— which is not the case.

[15:49]  Lila tells a story about a guy who wouldn’t date her because he kept losing his erection.

[18:34]

Lila:  And he said, “I have been… a few months out of a long-term relationship, and we weren’t using condoms,” and that’s really common, from what I found out later, that, when somebody’s been fluid-bonded for a long time, they’re out of practice with using condoms, they’re not … associating, maybe, pleasure with the experience of having a condom on.

Josh:  Right.

Lila:  And, there’s someone I know who recommends that men practice, masturbating with a condom on after not using it for a long time, so they can—

Josh:  Yeah.

Lila:  — get back into that.

Josh:  Makes sense.

Lila:  And there was no way that I wasn’t going— that I was going to have sex with him without a condom.

Josh:  I think I have done that, at some periods of my life.

Lila:  Practiced?

Josh:  Practiced with a condom, ‘cause I felt like that could be part of the issue as well. Umm.

Lila:  Do you think it was, for you?

Josh:  ‘Cause I know it’s more of a— mental thing. I, I think that has something to do with it, but, it doesn’t really— like in the, um, the blow job in the sauna, I felt really good that, I didn’t get an erection, and I didn’t care, and I wasn’t apologizing, and he was like, “Oh, what about?” And I’m like, “Don’t even worry about it.” (he laughs) “It’s totally fine.” Like honestly, like, I got to kiss him, and that was, like—

Lila:  The best?

Josh:  — for me it was just like, Oh my God I did not realize. I knew I was wanting, like sexuality in my life, but I didn’t realize how much I missed kissing (Lila mmm’s) until I was kissing somebody and then I was like, “OHHHHH!”

Lila:  Kissing’s the BESSST!

[27:32]  Josh on Magical Awakening, his energy healing training.

[23:57]  Josh on doing energy work on his penis and balls while watching porn. Also, cucumbers.

[38:22]  Lila marvels at how many people looked at an object such as a cucumber and thought “I could stick that up my butt!”

Lila:  That was a big cucumber!

Josh:  I think I— yeah, well, I mean I started doing— I started cucumbers when I was like, twelve, so, mah—

Lila:  Tell me about that!

Josh:  Thirteen.

Lila:  How did you figure that out?

Josh:  Thirteen.

Lila:  ‘Cause I never looked at something as a kid—

Josh:  (overlapping) How old was I then?

Lila:  — and thought, “I could stick that up my butt!” But I feel like, a lot of people did!

Josh:  (cracks up) Oh, I did.

Lila:  A lot of people did!

Josh:  I guess I was around twelve and I started seeing— I found … (sigh) they don’t send this anymore, but it used to be common practice that they would send, like, pornography advertisements in the mail, and so you would get this brochure that had, (Lila gasps) like a list, of like hundred different— it was just the main shots of each video, right, and it was like—

Lila:  Noo!

Josh:  — they were tiny little pictures like this, on a page, and, you would have like a hundred little pictures of pornography—

Lila:  You need a magnifying glass!

Josh:  And, sssomebody threw it out, or something. I found it in the dumpster of an apartment building that I was living in. And I kept that thing for, probably a year or two, I think. Or maybe even longer. But, that was my, first, like, pornography. And then— yeah, just looking at these tiny little thumbnails and being— and figuring out what they were doing. I don’t know— there seems— there’s not much of a—

Lila:  Was there a cucumber involved in one of the photos?!

Josh:  (laughs) No.

[40:04]  Josh on the first boy that he knew was gay, in high school. And a banana.

[40:41]

Josh:  Yeah, I just, would look in the fridge and be like— I did corn-on-the-cob, I did cucumber, I’ve done carrots, I—

Lila:  Did you, you peeled the corn on the cob first, or no?

Josh:  Oh no.

Lila:  No. Just with the husk on.

Josh:  Back then I would put a condom on it, but—

Lila:  And did you—

Josh:  — Oh yeah, peeled, with a, yeah, so you— it’s like ribbed for her, her pleasure. (both laugh)

Lila:  Except ribbed, ribbed for his pleasure in this case!

Josh:  Corn on the cob, man!

Lila:  Amazing, amazing!

Josh:  Cucumber and zucchini are really the best, though.

[41:17]  What kind of sex ed did Josh get while growing up? (His mom taught sex ed when he was three or four years old.)

[42:39]  Josh’s first memories of sexual arousal.

Young Leo.

Josh:  Well, there’s two. The one that was earlier, but I didn’t notice. I didn’t register it as that at the time, I guess I would say. And that was, probably around 13, when I was very into Growing Pains, the TV show (Lila giggles) and, later in the series, when Leonardo Dicaprio, as a young teenager, joined the cast, as, a, like, a teen runaway that Mike Seaver was now a teacher and he, takes him in and they, he lives in the house with all the family, and, when he came on the show, I remember being, very excited. (both laugh) I didn’t quite understand why I found him so interesting at the time, but I remember, young Leonardo Dicaprio definitely stimulated that for me. Um.

Lila:  (giggles) And for a legion of, of—

Josh:  And for many!

Lila:   — people in our generation. Ohhh, Leonardo Dicaprio. If you’re listening… (laughter)

Josh:  If you’re listening. I don’t feel the same way now, sorry. (laughs)

Lila:  Oh, you don’t? I still do. (sultry voice) I still do, Leo…

[44:11]  Josh’s first noticing of sexual desire for a man.

Josh:  The moment where it came into my own consciousness, I was on the bus going to school or something, I just, I took the city bus everywhere. I was fourteen. And a guy in spandex got, um— I don’t think they do this anymore, but basically you would put the bike— there was a rack for the bike on the front of the bus?

Lila:  Yeah. I think they still have that in some places.

Josh:  And they would. Yeah, so they would— he put the bike on the rack and then he came on and he was in his spandex biking outfit. And I, was on the bus and I just looked up and was— I just remember thinking, “DAMN, that guy is hot!” And then went, “Wait.” (both giggle) “What?” And then thought, “Huh. Well that’s interesting; I should look into that, if I think that men are attractive.” And that was pretty much it. But that was definitely, that was the first noticing of sexual desire for a man.

Lila:  Did you also find women sexually desirable?

Josh:  No.

Lila:  So it was your sexual awakening.

Josh:  Actually, hold on. Did I? I had an obsession with Andie MacDowell. (Lila chuckles) I thought she was beautiful; I had many photographs of her plastered around my room. Yeah. I don’t— I don’t think I had sexual feelings for her. I dated girls from early on, from the age of like six or so.

Lila:  You were dating at six?!

[45:55]  How Josh looked at boys versus how he looked at girls.

34. that was a big cucumber: horizontal with a gay reiki master

Welcome in to horizontal, the podcast about intimacy that’s recorded while: the opposite of vertical. My guest and I wear cozy robes and lie down, shoulder to shoulder, with the microphone positioned above us. It’s as though we’ve talked all night, and we’re still stargazing, but the sun is just starting to make itself known in yellows and oranges around the horizon.

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