Behold the loveliness of Meghan Tonjes.
http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/6344031
Meghan: If there was ever a moment where I thought about doing music, I remember thinking, “Oh well, I don’t look this— I don’t have that kind of voice and I don’t look this kind of way so, I’d have to do Broadway, but I don’t have a Broadway voice,” and so it kind of shut that down as an idea for me.
Lila: Was there somebody that you had in mind? Like I usually have a—
Meghan: —yeah…
Lila: —person, like “Oh well I’m not like that person—
Meghan: —mmhm— Lila: —so I can’t.
Meghan: I don’t remember if I had someone specific in mind, but just, I never saw anyone that looked like me that wasn’t miserable, trying to lose weight, or like, wasn’t celebrated until after they were thin.
Meghan: And so it’s just— Lila: Mmm.
Meghan: I didn’t have any— I didn’t have YouTube or anything, so I didn’t have anyone to look up to that looked like me, that didn’t hate themselves. It was always either: you were the joke, or you were the “before.”
*
Meghan: And I remember being on tour once, and I was, I was like with these two other girls, and they were have a conversation about the parts of themselves they don’t like. It felt like a mean girls moment, right? Where it was like, this one: “I really hate my neck, I wish I could do this, and I hate my face, like, here,” blablabla, and the other one’s like, “Agh, I hate my nose, and I really wanna get my nose job,” and blablabla, and they looked at me like waiting for me to speak up, and I was like, “I’m— I’m ok.” Like I like— like, there was nothing that I could think about, like everything that— you know, there— I have a line in my stomach, but I try to take photos with it and point it out to say like, “I’m insecure about this, but like, my body does all kinds of awesome stuff—
Lila: (quoting Meghan) Like breathing, I saw that!
Meghan: Yeah, like breathing! But like, I, that’s still something that like I am, you know, I— I don’t always put out there, like, you know um … my eyes are two different shapes and sizes […], when I grew up, I didn’t like my nose, I didn’t like, my chin, I didn’t like any of that stuff, and, uh, I just wasn’t excited about it and now I find a lot of like … I have gotten a lot of reinforcement on-line that makes me feel really good, but also, I think, has made me realize, like, take me outside of myself a little and realize, like— Oh, this is something that’s really a pretty feature, this is beautiful, like— […] There’s something to this, like: I look like my grandma in a lot of ways. I look like my mom in a lot of ways, and like, […] they’re so beautiful! And so, I, I don’t know that I would want to change parts of my face because I wouldn’t look like Margaret, I wouldn’t look like Shannon.
*
Meghan: When I see people leaving horrible comments, and I imagine being that miserable, like I, first of all, I don’t even have enough energy to leave more than like, a line on a friend’s video that I love, like, I can’t imagine writing three paragraphs about how, “This video made me want to die because you’re an ugly whale fat bitch and (Lila sighs heavily) and I hope you die alone and your parents couldn’t love you, like—
Lila: Jesus.
Meghan: — it’s just so intense and like when I first started I was 19 I would read those comments … and they would hit me a lot harder, and I would get messages from people saying, “I wanna do music, but I look like you and I see your comments and … I could never do that.” It was hard, it opened up this whole new window of: I was made fun of a lot in middle school, and then in high school people kinda let me— left me alone. ‘Cause I was doin’, I was in my own little groups of people and so, and it, generally people seemed to like me, even the popular kids, so no one really … yelled things at me or said— but middle school was like, the worst, like I would never relive middle school.
Lila: Ughh.
Meghan: And then all of a sudden to be thrown back into all— all of these old memories of people saying these things, was hard, and I didn’t really have anyone to like, turn to or talk to about it ‘cause— my family doesn’t do internet stuff, they, they would just be like, “I don’t, I don’t know what to tell you. It was— a lot of it was just— time and seeing a repetition of those comments and then clicking on those people’s profiles and realizing that— they either don’t make anything, or they leave those comments on everyone’s videos, or, they make videos but they often talk about their own depression and their own anxiety—
Lila: Wooow.
Meghan: — and their own weight issues, a lot of people that have left horrible comments are making videos talking about how much they hate their bodies and they’re losing weight—
Lila: Ohhhh nooo—
Meghan: And so once you start making that connection, I think I just started to realize, like: No one that’s happy, no one that’s satisfied, noone that’s successful, is—
Lila: (overlapping) — leaving comments like that—
Meghan: — really sitting here leaving these comments, like, these are people that I am striking a nerve, either in their own journey, and they feel like I’m representing something that they can’t be, something that—
Lila: (overlapping) Thriving in an area that they cannot access.
Meghan: — that they’ve admitted a defeat to and they see someone else doing it and they’re like, “What, like, I thought this was the path, if I just—” you know, I I, it— destroys their entire mindset. And I have empathy for those people, I, I think that, I can’t say that 12 year-old me wouldn’t have left comments like that on people’s stuff. And so—
Lila: Did you?
Meghan: I don’t know that I did, I don’t think that I had— I had the access to it, I think I was mostly just writing fanfiction about Buffy.
In the second half of this episode, I lie down with my dear friend Meghan Tonjes.
Meghan is a YouTube sensation, a singer-songwriter, the accidental leader of the booty revolution, an Instagram darling, a podcaster, and a body positive role model.
She is a warrior of deep intimacy and vulnerability, sharing so candidly about her internal emotional landscape — as well as her external physical landscape — that she clears a path for the rest of us to do the same. For all things Tonjes, including her music, podcasts, and extremely articulate YouTube rants, find her on meghantonjes.com
We got horizontal together in Meghan’s bed in Los Angeles, California, about four months (I thought it was seven, but then I looked back at my calendar!) before I went on my horizontal does america tour.
In the first part, titled, “booty revolution: horizontal with a youtube star,” we talk about sexting, how I met my partner, the feelings ambush, getting disowned, and her grandma, who was her person.
In the second part of our conversation, we discuss Meghan’s estranged father, the booty revolution itself, dating in L.A., bodies, and how she deals with trolls.
You don’t want to miss this one. Come lie down with us.
Links to things:
The story of the booty revolution. Also here on Refinery 29 and here on Upworthy. And also, there’s this article, titled “Instagram Did Not Fat-Shame Meghan Tonjes. The Music Industry Did.” (I think they both did— but the author makes a strong point about the expectations constricting American female singers.)
Meghantonjes.com, for all things Tonjes (and she does so many, you’re gonna need them all in one place!)
Top 10 Reasons to Get Disowned, the video Meghan made after the Father’s Day incident
Oh, Father, the song Meghan wrote after the video
“History of Body Image In America: How The ‘Ideal’ Female And Male Body Has Changed Over Time” an article with helpful photos
Hooking Up Healthy, an abridged version (recorded at Pleasure Chest) of the Dr. Zhana workshop that Meghan and I attended on the day we met
Lila’s article about Hacienda Villa for Bust magazine, “You Call It A Sex House, I Call It Home.”
Tend & befriend, a stress response common to female bodies. Mention this when someone says, “Why didn’t she just leave? How come she didn’t fight back?”
Show Notes (feel free to share quotes/resources on social media, and please link to iTunes, this website, or my Patreon!):
iTunes link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/horizontal-with-lila/id1238031115&ls=1
website link: https://horizontalwithlila.com/
Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/horizontalwithlila
[2:13] The Father’s Day that Meghan got disowned.
[3:07] The funny video Meghan made shortly after, titled Top 10 Reasons to Get Disowned.
TOP 10 REASONS TO GET DISOWNED!!
I got disowned on Father’s Day. Happy Sunday! Subscribe! http://bit.ly/subscribetonjes The Patreon http://www.patreon.com/meghantonjes The PODCAST: http://bit.ly/roommatepod The MUSIC: http://apple.co/1IlZwak Places To Touch Me: Twitter: https://twitter.com/meghantonjes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/meghantonjes… Instagram: http://instagram.com/meghantonjes/ LifeSizeBeauty Channel: http://bit.ly/lifesizebeauty Snapchat: meghantonjes PO BOX: Meghan Tonjes PO Box 57455 Sherman Oaks, CA 91413
[3:42] The cathartic song Meghan wrote after that, called Oh, Father.
“Oh, Father” (original song)
Buy my new EP “Things With Friends”!! http://t.co/OIxCd77i8r Subscribe! http://bit.ly/subscribetonjes The Patreon (if you want to buy this song for $1, join here!) http://www.patreon.com/meghantonjes The PODCAST: http://bit.ly/roommatepod The MUSIC: http://apple.co/1IlZwak Places To Touch Me: Twitter: https://twitter.com/meghantonjes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/meghantonjes…
[4:17]
Meghan: Oh God it’s been so long since I sang that. But it was— it was like I wrote this song and I had said everything I needed to say and then it like— the switch turned off … and I really didn’t … miss him, I didn’t feel as sad about it, it was like … when I think about him now … it’s like I’m thinking about my dad before he died.
[4:37] How disownment feels like a death in the family.
Meghan: It feels like there’s this person I knew, this person I had all of— ‘cause we were close when I first moved out here. I have his tat— I have his handwriting tattooed on me. Like, we were very close and then— it was just over and it— all the things I’ve heard about him since, all the things that he’s done, I don’t know who that person is. And I don’t— it’s weird, I don’t— I feel indifferent to him, I don’t hate him, but I don’t feel anything for him.
[5:22] Something that Meghan has never shared publicly before…
Meghan: It was Easter weekend, and another friend of my brother’s, his grandmother? I think had passed away. Unexpectedly. So we went to the viewing and we were watching … the family mourn. We were watching I think her husband just sitting there being very sad and crying, and the family just sitting there. And I remember my mom saying, “Your father took that from us.” In the sense that, we will never be able to sit at his fune— funeral and think of him as this saint, or this great person or this person that we miss so terribly. We will be sitting there, listening to how much everyone loved him and knowing the truth of the things he’s done. And that like, completely floored me, like he took— he took this from us … yeah.
Lila: He took the fond memory of him from us.
Meghan: Yeah.
Lila: Because we can’t think of him in that way anymore.
Meghan: We can’t mourn him the way that we might have if we didn’t know.
Lila: Or, you might even say, the way that we should be able to.
[7:18] Would Meghan go to her father’s funeral?
[7:36] What doesn’t Meghan’s extended family know?
[8:10]
Meghan: I think my brother and— and him had had a conversation once like, maybe a year ago, and they’d both been drinking and my brother was like, “You have to fix this shit.” And supposedly my dad was, was saying he would, he would. And I haven’t heard anything from my dad. He’s only gotten worse. So …
Lila: Do you think he’s an alcoholic?
Meghan: I do.
[8:40]
alcoholic death (noun) = according to the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, this is a living death, a half-life of an alcoholic, characterized by avoidance
[9:34] Does Meghan drink alcohol?
[10:20] Impulse control vs. texting while drunk and angry.
[11:04] Does Meghan fear that she has inherited some addictive tendencies?
[12:36] The first time Meghan felt so consumed by grief that she felt she couldn’t function.
[12:53]
Meghan: And then, I remember a month after that, I was like, “I just need something good to happen.” I just like, I remember talking to her and being like, “I just need something good to happen.” And, I think within a few weeks maybe the booty revolution stuff had happened. Which at the time I didn’t think was good I was like, “Oh my God, my, my butt is all over the news right now, because my Instagram photo got taken down! And … everyone’s making a million judgements about my body,” it didn’t feel like a good thing at the time, but I don’t think my life would be what it is if it hadn’t propelled me into that, very in-your-face kind of body positivity—
Lila: —because you became— Meghan: —it forced me—
Lila: —with that one image of you […] wearing black underwear—
Meghan: (laughs) —and a t-shirt!
Lila: —that was a little bit cheeky—
Meghan: Yeah!
Lila: —not even a thong—
Meghan: Nooo. (laughs)
Lila: That one image of you became iconic, that you became a symbol—
Meghan: Yeah.
Lila: —for—
Meghan: —censorship. Lila: —all the ways—
Lila: —in which people try to censor women’s bodies when they are not “up to” some sort of ridiculous standard that is really just — and somebody put it so well to me about a year ago — they said, “Beauty is what is in fashion.” (Meghan mm-hm’s) Right? Right now, skinny, ascetic, models, tall— (Meghan mm-hm’s) At different times, different body types were in fashion. […] And if you were skinny, you were poor, because your family couldn’t feed you well, and you didn’t have the beautiful curves of a well-fed, rich woman who was taken care of. (Meghan mm-hm’s) And it’s hard to think of it because the fashion changes so slowly, that, who knows if it will change in our lifetime, or maybe it will only change towards the end of our lifetime, you know?
[15:16] The body stuff from childhood that Meghan had to confront, at the advent of the booty revolution.
[15:29] Meghan didn’t see anyone that looked like me “that wasn’t miserable, trying to lose weight, or like, wasn’t celebrated until after they were thin.”
[16:13] How Meghan used humor, sarcasm, and achievements to compensate.
[16:50] What was high school Meghan like? What do her classmates say to her now?
[17:34] On leaving your hometown behind.
[17:57]
Lila: I just realized something from that … that I don’t have any friends from before my parent’s divorce. No friends from Long Island. Zero. No contact with any of them.
[20:11] How does L.A.’s spread-out-edness affect dating life?
[20:15]
Meghan: Like on dating apps, you only want to go a certain amount of miles, right? There are only like, people that live on the West side probably date people on the West side, people that live in the Valley probably date people that live in the Valley, ‘cause they don’t want to travel that far, it’s fai—
Lila: It’s so—
Meghan: It’s interesting.
Lila: — to me that’s just mind-boggling, because, I would travel 45 minutes for any friend that I really deem a friend.
Meghan: Yeah yeah yeah—
Lila: You know, somebody who I label as my friend? Is worth traveling 45 minutes for. You know?
Meghan: (overlapping) I think there’s just so many people here, and there’s such a desire for convenience, so it’s like, you could find someone that works any— like, wherever you are, but I don’t know that it’s gonna be the right person, per se.
[20:57] On L.A. culture.
[21:44]
Lila: I’ve— become— I’ve moved past that looking— in— the mirror at my nose every day, you know, ph— part of my life, and, I’ve gotten into a part of my life where I caress my breasts and I, I— (Meghan mmhm’s) I tell my body how much I love it and, and that I’m gorgeous, and, you know I like, hang off the (Meghan giggles) edge of my loft bed and look at my butt in the mirror to the side in profile and I’m like—
Meghan: I love it.
Lila: — Yeah, I look good!
Meghan: I love it.
Lila: You know, so I’ve gotten to a point where I, I do and am able to celebrate […] my attributes and what I have and my beauty and I beautify myself in a way that usually feels very good and I feel … Em, I’ve got style and I feel great to go out on the street in New York … and in only three days or so here—
Meghan: (laughs) Has it destroyed all of it?
Lila: — I am— (laughs) No! Not— (laughs unnervedly)
Meghan: You come to L.A. and you lose all sense of self-awareness!
Lila: Um, you know, I can feel the … let’s say I can feel the dark side.
[25:10] Meghan on Instagram, faces, and looking like her ancestors.
[27:23] Meghan on getting more opportunities by having a different look.
[27:36]
Meghan: Some people are like, “Oh, it’s so brave that you do this,” which is, I think is so fucking condescending sometimes, people are like, “It’s so brave that you can go out in a t-shirt and shorts and you don’t hate yourself.” […] And you’re like, “Yeah, no, just livin’, thanks.” But I understand where they’re coming from, ‘cause I understand the mindset of […] we want to label someone as brave because we struggle to do it, and so to see someone else do it so carefree and so unapologetically, we don’t know what to do with that, and you either go the way of like, admiring that person, be like, “Holy shit, you’re so strong.” Or, uh, really hating them for it, and really wanting to break them down a little bit so that they can’t do it as freely and as unapologetically.
[28:14] Meghan on surrounding herself with makers and people that build each other up, as a way to manage living in L.A.
[31:24] When did Meghan first realize she was beautiful?
[33:00]
Meghan: The last person I was with, he made me feel really good about my boobs. I remember being young and I got boobs early, I had my period at 10, I like, was wearing sports bras at 11, ‘cause it was just like, a lot happenin’, and I remember reading magazines about, “How Do You Find Out Your Boobs are Saggy?” Like, right, you put a pencil underneath and if it can’t move, they’re saggy, and I remember being so scared of that as like, a kid. […] I just never felt great about them, I didn’t think they were that— I just thought like, […] “I’m fat and they just look a certain way,” And this last really made me feel like, “You’ve, like, great natural, like, just boobs, like they just look good.” And it made me feel so empowered, like, I started wearing— I wear so many things now without a bra! […] That was the good thing that he brought into my life, I feel very empowered about my boobs.
[35:08] Meghan on her mother (and her extended family)’s constant concern with weight.
[35:51]
Meghan: I do notice that my mom comes to visit and like, she’ll be insecure about certain things, I’m always trying to be like, “You look great.” Like just, I’m wearing the crop top! Like just wear the crop top. Just wear the bathing suit, like, we’re gonna be fine. And so it’s an interesting position to be in all of a sudden where I’m like encouraging my mom, and I find her— I feel like she’s like starting to like, be a little bit more … open to things, in a way that maybe she wasn’t before and I’m like, I hope that I’m having some effect on you by showing you that, you know, we don’t have to be miserable in our bodies. And always feel like, ok, it’s not gonna be good until I change and I’m this certain size, like I’ve done way more cool shit when I was 320 pounds than I ever did when I was 260. And I posted way more half-naked photos. So. And had way more sex! (both laugh) That was never an issue!
[36:37] Lila asks Meghan how she learned to deal with internet trolls and their flack.
[39:54]
Yeah, so I think, eh— I started to have empathy for those people, I started to realize that they’re not in a place to really leave me any kind of confirm— affirmation for what I want. I also, I think there’s something in me that thrives on kind of pissing people off a lil’ bit, like there’s something in me that really is filled with like, glee, when I do something as simple as post a photo in like a crop top, and people lose their shit. ‘Cause I realize like, that’s such a ridiculous reaction, and life is so temporary, that I can’t even imagine, like being that upset about anything like that, um, that has nothing to do with like—
Lila: That has no relevance—
Meghan: — that has no relevance—
Lila: — to people’s hearts and—
Meghan: — exactly! And so,
Lila: — wellbeing —
Meghan: — it’s just like, it becomes like, it almost becomes ridiculous when you read these comments, like it’s funny to me now, like, I mean, occasionally, like if I’m having a horrible day and somebody really points out something I was already a little insecure about … maybe it’ll kind of, bug me, but umm, I like to respond to a lot of those comments now, I, I like to have fun with them and—
Lila: — but you’re very unusual because, you know everybody says, “Don’t read the comments.”
Meghan: I knooow! But I read the comments! […] Not all the comments, there’s a lot, there’s a lot of weird comments on weird videos but. I do! I’m interested in it, I think, you know, I, maybe, it’s like, there’s a little 12 year-old troll in me that just like—
Lila: (cackles) I see that, trolling back!
Meghan: Yeah, it’s just like, I wanna fuck up their day too, like I want them to know they didn’t get to me, and I’m funnier.
[41:32] The troll who tried to insult Meghan with a Moby Dick reference, but didn’t actually know who Moby Dick was.
[41:57]
Meghan: But it’s never really attacking them, per se, it’s more of like, I just wanna show you that I r— I see what you’re saying. I’m so unbothered about it, that I’m gonna make a joke, and I’m gonna take —
Lila: (overlapping) And I’m —
Meghan: — a lot of the power—
Lila: — I’m clever. (overlapping)
Meghan: — back in the situation. And I’m clever, and I’m gonna— and there have been quite a few people that I’ve said things like that, or I’ve gone back, and they’re like, “Oh, actually, you’re pretty cool.” And they back off!
[42:45]
Meghan: I remember being a kid, and I remember the first time I was called fat by another kid, and I was in third grade— second grade? Maybe second grade. And we were doing like a story time, we were sitting on the floor and the teacher was like reading something to us and this kid — I don’t remember his name — was whispering, “Fat,” to me. And I remember my instinct, I raised my hand. And my teacher called on me and I said, “He’s calling me fat.” (chuckles) Like that was my immediate reaction! And I think maybe like in middle school I lost a little bit of that, right, ‘cause— it just kind of gets like beaten out of you a little bit, of like, if I could speak up but it’s not gonna change anything, they’re still gonna say it, if I bring attention to it they’re only gonna harass me more. But there is something very intrinsically in me that I think I’ve re-found— I just don’t, I’m not t— I’m not to be fucked with. You know, my mom raised me very much to like, if you see something, say something, if you feel like something’s wrong, say something. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Don’t be afraid to speak up about things. And I think that, when I just feel like something’s wrong and it’s not okay, I say it. […] A lot of times, that leads me to conversations or fights with people on-line, where I’m like, “Yeah, no, this is bullshit though,” (Lila laughs) and I’m gonna tell you why. It sometimes gets me in trouble but … I’m okay with it.
[44:22] On the desire for an editor/proofreader, (a la Her) for one’s romantic correspondence.
[45:11]
Meghan: I tell people like, if you need to leave someone a shitty comment, just come to my channel and do it, because I’m not taking them that seriously. I’m focusing a lot on other positive stuff and I know that when I’m saying something, and it’s getting that kind of reaction, I’m saying something that needs to be said.
Lila: (overlapping) Striking of nerve of some kind—
Lila: — for, certain. Meghan: It needs to be struck.
Meghan: The nerves need to be struck.
[45:29] The story of the as-yet-to-be-released series Sex-ish, filmed by Morgan Spurlock’s production company.
[45:44]
Meghan: Ughhhh, it was with Maker, and Maker like, went under, and so I feel like it’s in a vault somewhere.
Lila: Oh noooo.
Meghan: I knoooow. I think, like, Warrior Poets wants to buy it back, but I don’t know if they’re gonna do it— Eric Enright, help usss! [update: Morgan Spurlock stepped down from Warrior Poets in Dec. 2017 after a “me too” confession post]
Lila: It’s right, it— this is the zeitgeist, like, it is ready, it is primed—
Meghan: (overlapping) — they’re, they’re—
Lila: The New York Times is writing about polyamory, like, it is, it is, it is, the moment!
Meghan: Iiiii knooow! They just did a whole article on the guy that has the Real Sex Dolls, and I was like, A YEAR AGO I WAS THERE! I was in the WAREHOUSE!
[46:52] Meghan and Lila talk about meeting at the Villa, on the set of Sex-ish.
[46:55]
Meghan: I would lo— I wanna see the episode with us at the house!
Lila: I really wanna see that episode.
Meghan: That’s when you and I fell in love; that’s on camera somewhere!
Lila: I know! We— we were lying down on Kenneth’s bed, and we!
Meghan: It was so good! It was like, and that, that—
Lila: You came for Zhana’s workshop! “Hooking Up Healthy,” right?
[47:11] Why did Lila do her Sex-ish interview wearing hot rollers?
[47:21] Meghan’s first impression of Lila.
[47:45]
Meghan: That was the episode, that was like, being at the house was the one that completely blew my mind, because, not that I’d ever really thought that in-depth about monogamy or casual sex, like, or like, what a relationship would look like for me but that was the first time that I was like, “Oh my God, I have options!” I have a choice to dictate what my relationship looks like, and I went home and literally started talking to people like I was the Polyamorous Queen. Like I had never done it, but it was just like, it opened up my mind to a way that I was like, “I have to pass this on to other people, ‘cause they have options!”
[48:21] Why was Lila still “closeted” about living at the Villa at the time that Sex-ish was filmed?
[49:04]
Lila: So, I hadn’t been in the tango community for several years, and I went to a milonga to do … a fashion show, for my friend, who was designing clothing that was— that you could dance in, that you could do yoga in, that you could go to the street— go on the street and you wouldn’t have to change, and, so we did it at a milonga (which is a tango dance), and this guy who was a teacher— who I was friends with on Facebook, because I admired his dancing and he danced with me once and then never danced with me ever again. And I had sent him a couple messages, and I’d commented on a couple of things that he had commented on, because he was enamoured with my friend, a dancer who lives in Portland— and, he never responded to any of it. And then— I heard, that he was at a party with Kenneth, Kenneth said, “Oh, I met— I met someone that you know.” And then, the next day I got a message from him, and it said, “Heyyy, I would love to come to a party at your house,” and I was like—
Meghan: Multiple y’s on that “hey.” (laughs) Yeah, no thank you, too late.
Lila: No! Nooo. And, and further, No! Because. Are you kidding? We have no connection. You’ve—
Meghan: You’ve ignored me.
Lila: You’ve ignored me! You haven’t danced with me again after that first time. And then, you think I’m gonna get you into the most exclusive sex party in New York? (Meghan cough-laughs.) Abso-fucking-lutely not! And I told Kenneth not to invite him out either.
Meghan: Woww.
Meghan: Damn. No, it is. Lila: Because that’s just shitty behavior.
Lila: He can come to Kenneth’s workshops and learn how to be a proper man. […] Then— I was doing that tango fashion show. Let’s say it was three months later or something. And I passed by him in the hallway. He doesn’t say hello, he doesn’t say my name, he gets this close [editor’s note: real close] and he goes, (in a soft whispery growl), “You look so sexy.”
Meghan: Oh my GOD.
Lila: And, and cruises past me and I’m, I’m shivering with disgust, and I’m pissed, and there’s nothing— really to be done about it. And, the fact that I lived in this house, made him think that I would be available—
Meghan: (overlapping) For him when he wanted.
Lila: For those kinds of advances, that I would just be open—
Meghan: — yeah —
Lila: — that I would be, down to fuck perhaps, and, I remember a friend from Germany saying, “I see that as so ridiculous. It’s like somebody saying, ‘I like sandwiches.’ And so you say, ‘Oh, you want to have a sandwich with me right now, then.’”
DTF = an acronym for the phrase “down to fuck” [colloquial]
Meghan: (laughs) Yeah, it is.
Lila: (snortles) NO!
Meghan: That’s how that works.
Lila: That is not what I— (both laugh) And— it’s such a small thing but it was a hint of what—
Meghan: (overlapping) How you’d be treated.
Lila: What— I was concerned about and how I might be treated—
Meghan: (overlapping) How you’d be seen.
Lila: — once people found out that I lived in this place.
Meghan: Yeah.
Lila: And so, I kind of zipped it for … a year, after. When I met you— first of all, when I heard it was Morgan Spurlock’s production company— [editor’s note: no longer attached to Warrior Poets as of 2017]
Meghan: Yeah.
Lila: — that— already I felt a sense of trust. Because … it really seems like he is—
Meghan: (overlapping) He really dives in, to things.
Lila: — dedicated. And, and really wants to understand, and really wants to know, and isn’t trying to sensationalize, is really trying to— tell the truth of things—
Meghan: (overlapping) Yeah.
Lila: — which is sometimes … extremely absurd. And then, I, Kenneth had kind of convinced me, and I was excited, but I wasn’t sure if I wanted to be interviewed.
Meghan: Yeah.
Illustration of “Hacienda Villa.” From the imagination of Rosena Fung
Lila: And I wasn’t sure if I was gonna use my real name because I had, published an article in Bust—
Meghan: Yeah, we talked about this, if— you had used a fake name.
Lila: And I had used the name Anna Bella. Which I chose because I thought it should be meaningful, I didn’t want it to be just some, some, ill-chosen pseudonym, and so— it was a twist on both my grandmother’s names. One of them was Ana, and the other one was Della. And so I made it Anna Bella. I published that article, “You Call It a Sex House, I Call It Home,” and I got the magazine in my hand, and I— I expected to feel so … triumphant. It’s my first published article! You know, I expected to feel something. And I sat down, and I thumbed through, and I saw the— illustration’s really excellent, and, and funny, and quite accurate and playful. And I didn’t feel anything… And I think it’s because it wasn’t my by-line. […] That isn’t my name. And, I felt that disconnect of my, let’s say, public persona — even though it’s just one article, let’s call it a public persona — not aligning with my, private beliefs. […] And it didn’t feel right. I felt a little bit numb to it and … I think that it could have led to some interesting things […] if I’d used my real name.
Meghan: You could claim it as yours—
Lila: But—
Meghan: In an interesting way.
Lila: I mean, I, I could, but […] I didn’t even try. You know, I didn’t even try pitching things right after, saying, “This is my article,” you know? So, at the time that I met you, when you came in the door and it was you, I was just like, “I’m doing this.” (Meghan laughs) “I’m gonna let her. This is the person I want to interview me.”
Meghan: Oh good! I had no idea what the fuck I was doing!
Lila: And I was in rollers! And they said it had to be right then! And I couldn’t believe that I would let someone interview me on camera that potentially will be on national television, in hot rollers, and then I thought, “Well,” —
Meghan: — It’s happening.
Lila: Well— and it’s often how it happens.
[55:29] Meghan on working with a female director (Lucy) and female crew members (Victoria) while being in her underwear on her first day of shooting.
[55:59] How did Meghan get the Sex-ish gig?
[57:43] What happened between Lila and the sound guy?
[1:00:15]
Lila: When I find out that men are fathers, I’m less attracted to them.
Meghan: Interesting! I think I’m more attracted, ‘cause I don’t know that I want kids, so I’m like, aw, you already got it out of your system!
[1:01:21] On how out-condom use (as opposed to in-condom use) after an extended period of fluid-bonding can (sometimes) affect the functionality of a penis.
out-condom (noun) = more commonly referred to as a “condom,” (as though it were the only kind), this form of birth control, typically made of latex or polyisoprene, sheaths the penis (or, outtie bits) and provides a contained receptacle for ejaculate. Very occasionally referred to as a penis condom or male condom, but, since not everyone with such anatomy prefers to call their genitalia a penis, or considers themselves male, out-condom is a preferable trans-aware moniker.
outtie bits (noun, slang) = a preferred trans-aware term which refers to genitalia as one might refer to a belly button, either as an innie, or an outtie, or both.
in-condom (noun) = more commonly referred to as a “female condom” and (through a preposterous lack of sex education and the downfalls of capitalism), currently only available by prescription in the United States, is typically made of polyurethane or nitrile. As not everybody who could use an in-condom identifies as female or calls their innie bits a “vagina,” in-condom is a preferable trans-aware moniker.
innie bits (noun, slang) = a preferred trans-aware term with refers to genitalia as one might refer to a belly button, either as an innie, or an outtie, or both.
fluid-bonding (noun) = referring to sexual partners that engage in genital-to-genital or genital-to-anus contact without using a barrier such as a condom or dental dam, and typically resulting in some kind of ejaculatory fluid having direct contact with the genitals or anus of said partners
[1:03:22]
Meghan: I feel like you and I are always in bed together, after some traumatic event in my life. (chortles)
Lila: Oh my God, it’s true!
Meghan: You’re like, healing for me. (Lila coos) Being next to you.
Lila: Like a talisman?
Meghan: Like a talisman… The last time we were in bed together was after I was assaulted, and the next day you came over and you took care of me.
This was that day.
Lila: Yeah.
Meghan: And you brought like, food and ice. Took care of my little foot. Propped my foot up.
Lila: You tw—
Meghan: Layed with me.
Lila: — twisted your foot —
Meghan: Twisted my foot. Lila: — while you were —
Lila: — trying to get away from him.
Meghan: Mmhm. Snapped my ankle … Yeah, I just, I wanted to thank you for that, ‘cause I don’t know if I ever did but that was like … that was real special. I, I was like, not in the place to be alone and you came over, and like, just layed with me. And I remember you— I was really upset, and I was trying to like, even, deal with what had happened, and like why I’d reacted the way I had, and like, why I hadn’t screamed or like—
Lila: (softly) Yeah…
Meghan: called the police or yelled— and I remember, you were like, “I read this thing once, that, sometimes women will tend and befriend as opposed to—
Lila: (emphatically) Yes.
Meghan: — the fight or flight response, or whatever.
Lila: (softly) Yeah…
Meghan: And I would think about that all of the time … just to like— when I would get in my head about it, like why I didn’t scream. I would think about that all the time. (Lila coos) Yeah girl, layed with me, took care of me … it was like, the best thing that could have happened the next day after that.
Lila: I was honored to be able to do it.
[1:05:15] Meghan tells Lila a story about her first middle school dance. And her mom’s mothering.
[1:11:08]
Meghan: It’s amazing, kind of, when you— when you grow up and your parents grow up if you can find each other again … it’s a really cool relationship. Really cool experience. Yeah… It gets better, man, middle school’s awful, you just gotta get through it. If there’s any middle schoolers listening to this podcast. (cracking up)
Lila: I hope they would, actually, they’ll learn so much.
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