This is my Wizard friend, Devin Person, as seen by Mark Shaw Studio.
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Lila: I am a Love Warrior. I have these tools, and I have trained, I have trained my heart by opening it up again and again and again, and being interested, and opening myself to desire, and taking risks, and allowing myself to be hurt! And allowing myself to experience joy! And excitement, and heartache and grief and figuring out, how to carry that. Because I don’t believe that heartache is the worst thing in the world! And I think that we are here to connect! And that all efforts towards connection… are worth it!
Devin: And I’m gonna tie it all back together; it goes beyond connection ‘cause you actively engaged with that 12 year-old, and really listened, but also it feels like, responded to, and had your adult voice in the conversation. It wasn’t just “Let’s hear from the inner child,” it’s, “Let’s talk about this together.”
Lila: And that’s the self-intimacy. Because when I say “intimacy” I don’t only mean connection with others. I mean seeing yourself, and being deeply seen by yourself, as well.
My darling patron.
This is the second installment of my mash-up with Devin Person’s this podcast is a ritual.
In part one, titled “this ritual is horizontal,” I told Devin the story of my friend Jon, Hamilton & the Hondalorian, and we talked about phone calls vs. video calls, the sort of friends you play reruns with and those you chart new territory with, digital communication & its nutrients, resilience, rejection, & confidence, the joy of sexting, the Seamlessification of dating, and icing on Tinder.
In part two, “this horizontal is a ritual,” we discuss:
- a bit of ghosting wizardry
- dating reviews
- self-holds
- & parenting our inner child.
I tell Devin my story of being photographed nude in a nest, and the miserable sexy dance party that followed.
Devin invites me to suggest creative approaches to making virtual communication more pleasurable, and then conjures for us a 3-point spell for alchemizing connection across distance.
Through the Magic of the interwebz, come lie down with us again in Canggu, Bali, Indonesia, Louisville, Kentucky, and wherever you find yourself horizontal.
Pre-recording selfies in an era when we could be horizontal in the same place at the same time. Two of my Season 3 horizontal episodes: 85. well-hung psychedelic sex wizard / no hookups, & 86. you’re trying to porn sex me, feature Devin & his Best Wiz, Kevin!
Links to Useful Things:
Devin’s Wizard website
Devin’s Wizard Instagram
Twinpowerment on Instagram for Self-holds
Devin has been exploring Internal Family Systems
My all-time favorite question game: Gravitas, the little box of big questions
A question game I’ve enjoyed on several major holidays at the Villa: Vertellis, which literally translates to, “Tell Me More!”
Spy article on the Best Sex Gifts for Long-Distance Relationships
Lila was photographed nude in a life-sized nest as part of Debbie Baxter’s The Nest Project
Show Notes:
(if you quote from this resource, please link back to this post or the horizontal Patreon!)
[3:41 – 7:03] Lila tells a story about a bit of ghosting retaliation & Devin dubs it wizardry
[7:09] Lila & Devin discuss rating lovers on a fictional Uber-like dating app (on the Amazon TV show Upload)
[9:28 – 16:04] Lila on literally holding yourself, & Devin on Internal Family Systems
Lila: Since most of us — if we are un-partnered, if we are not living with people who touch us and whom we touch — are not getting the touch that we desire, or, require, as my friend Jeremy’s mom, who’s a psychotherapist says, “You need 8 hugs a day just to feel normal,” and it’s like, who gets that, even in pre-pandemic times? You know, very very few people are getting 8 hugs a day. So imagine that deficit, you know, that touch deficit, and skin hunger that people are running on, throughout their whole lives, which I believe, creates a whole host of issues, and irritability and, inability to sleep and all kinds of disease … but, if we are unable to get touch, currently, from others, then giving it to ourselves becomes a matter of vital importance. There are these women that I follow on Instagram — their handle is @twinpowerment, — and they do these s— very simple videos, of self-holds, where, your hands are both on yourself, right, and so you’re creating a circuit, of, care. So if you’re thinking about things in a yogic sense, right, in a energy center or chakra sense, the hands are connected to the heart, so the heart goes all the way out through the arms and through the hands. So you’re creating a circuit that goes from your heart, back into you, and, for many years, I’ve used two hands over the center of my chest, of my sternum, in order to calm myself down when I felt rejected or jealous or, heartbroken or grief-stricken. Or in emotional pain. Others that I’ve seen them share, like one hand on either of your cheeks, right, like you’re, like you’re cradling your own face. One hand on your forehead and one hand cradling the base of your skull, at the back. So I think these, these self-holds are incredibly powerful, and necessary, for when we’re not getting the touch that would be the real ice cream. This might be the space ice cream, that has the vitamins (giggles) that we— that can get us by.
Devin: Huh, that’s interesting — how, how, you’ve been experimenting with them? And how do they make you feel afterwards?
Lila: The hands over the heart… has a sense of taking care of my inner little girl… and mothering myself. Essentially telling myself that it’s gonna be okay; things are gonna be alright. That we will, come through this, and that, I will never abandon, my little me. That I will always show up for my little me, or if there is an instance in which I am unable to do so, I will make amends to myself. And my little, me…
horizontal & holding my self @ The Confetti Project‘s June Open Studios. Photo by Jelena Aleksich
Devin: That’s beautiful; that’s one of the things that I’ve been reflecting a lot on this year — I’ve been doing Internal Family Systems therapy, which is all about, talking to the different parts that you have inside of you and learning how to get them together. And I was running into these moments where I was like, Okay! I’ve identified the part like, I’ve heard what it had to say, like, why am I still feeling this way and bothered? Shouldn’t I have the epiphany and then the problems melt away? And I was at a bonfire for the solstice and I was sitting across from someone, and we were all like, giving our like, New Year’s speeches, and, this person said something that just really resonated with me about how this year she had learned to be a parent to her inner child, and I was like, Oh my God, that’s what I’ve been missing, it’s not just that I hear them, you’re heard, you’re a ghost and now your spirit is free, like stop haunting me! It’s like, Oh! I get to be the parent to you, and so that means both stepping into that role of giving the attention and nurturing that that part feels like it was lacking, but also, being a parent where it’s like, “No, you don’t get to have a temper tantrum in the middle of dinner, like, that’s not what we’re doing right now.” And having some guidelines and boundaries and parameters that you use to work with these parts — that’s been a totally different concept where I think it, it’s similar to that idea of like, holding yourself, of, yeah it’s, it’s learning how to, even when you’re alone, get along with others, and the others are, just, yourself.
Lila: Mmmm. Madison Young talks about actual parenting, in-life parenting, as a process of re-parenting yourself at that age.
Devin: Yeah.
Lila: Almost all of us have these stories about how our parents did it wrong. And how we wished they had done this, or how they had been unable to show up in the way that we desired them to do. And, we cannot change that experience, that experience happened….. We could reframe … but, I think the more effective, more powerful thing … is to … be able to talk to ourselves, and step into that— most of us want this kind, loving, firm, taking care of things, parent. And figuring out how to, offer that voice to ourselves. I have done some visualization about myself at the most tender ages that I remember, the most fraught ages. And still, every time I think about myself, particularly at age 12, I just — and I visualize, you know, close my eyes and visualize myself in my pre-teen room I just wanna cry, you know, I just wanna ….. I feel her pain so much. Actually this is related to the story I was going to tell you later when you asked me for a story.
[16:39] Lila makes suggestions for connecting more joyously (and effectively!) across the digital divide
Lila: Like with any group of people who meet regularly, it’s likely that your pandemic pod, your household, gets into conversational grooves, from which it’s hard to deviate.
One of the things I love the most, is to play question games with people. A few of my favorites are: Gravitas, the little box of big questions, Vertellis, a game I’ve played on several major holidays at the Villa, which literally translates to, “Tell Me More,” and the card-free improvisational Hot Seat Game, where multiple people direct their attention to one person, and ask anything and everything they feel curious about, especially the things that they wouldn’t typically ask. You can ask follow-up questions in Hot Seat, but first, the response when someone answers your question is always, “Thank you.” I like playing Hot Seat with a timer. Five minutes per person, for example. Once you get into it, it probably won’t feel like enough! These games are invaluable to me because you are likely to share and learn things about those close to you that otherwise wouldn’t arise in the, what they call here in Bali, the “new normal,” or what I’m thinking of as, your pandemic paradigm.
Also in the realm of games, many board games have apps these days, either stand-alone apps or bundles like Jackbox Games. My favorite game to play lately is a word game called Codenames. I love games where you have to try and guess somebody’s sense of humor (like What’s Your Meme) or try to guess associations that they have (like Fishbowl).
Another playful way to connect across distance is to watch a movie together and Mystery Science Theatre it out loud (or in the comments) on Zoom. Or to watch a stand-up special together.
If you’re looking to connect with a lover long-distance, there are toys that allow one partner to have a remote control that operates the other partner’s sex toy!
And lastly, for this interlude, what if we returned to the Fireside Chats of radio days. I am told, in my parents’ youth, families would gather around a radio in the living room, and listen to the same program at the same time. What if we did that with podcasts? What if they weren’t just a solitary, in-earbud endeavor, but a communal one, if we just shifted our listening style from solo to group? What if people treated podcasts like their TV series — deciding to binge one together, or waiting until your listening-mate was available to hear the latest episode?
What if?
[19:50 – 29:42] Lila tells a story of getting photographed nude in a life-sized nest as part of Debbie Baxter’s The Nest Project, the miserable sexy dance party that followed, and the mantra, “Don’t disassociate, don’t crumble, don’t leave” aka the path of the Love Warrior
The Artist, Debbie Baxter & I. The Nest Project. Ubud, Bali, Indonesia. 2020
Lila: I’d been living in Bali a few months when somebody in Portland reached out to me and said, “I know someone you should know. She’s living in Bali. She creates life-size nests, and photographs people in them naked,” I was like “I need to know this person!” (chuckles) “Whoever she is, I need to know her.” Her name is Debbie Baxter. […] And I participated in her Nest Project.
I came to the studio where she had the nest — sometimes she does it on a beach; sometimes she does it in the jungle, in this case it was in a studio in a, kind of multipurpose space called Magic, which has a restaurant, a performance space, and a yoga shala and a library, and a jewelry store, and all these, all these things! And a little gallery. So I showed up to this little gallery, and sat with Debbie. And the first thing she does, is interview you. Because each photograph is accompanied by a story. And she interviews you about what you’re bringing to the nest. What she means is:
What are you carrying?
What’s heavy?
What are you, what are y— what load are you carrying from your childhood, or from your history, that you wanna take into the nest with you, in service of some kind of healing. Or some kind of transformation or catharsis.
So we talked a lot about my mother. We talked about, my lack of memories before the age of 12. We talked about the divorce and, my difficulty growing up as a teenager in my mother’s house. And, she had me pull out of my history, three ages that felt particularly — tender or rife with energy and emotion. One of them was 3, which is when I had been spending a lot of time in my mother’s country of Brazil, and then they brought me back home. And apparently I was very unhappy about that. When I was 12, which is when my parents got divorced, and my mom moved me down to Florida, where I did not want to live. And when I was 16, which is, before I was able to get out of my mother’s house and I felt so so so trapped.
A lot of my thoughts in that interview focused on the 12 year-old, and, she had me do that visualization, where I thought of myself in my room.
A lot of my thoughts in that interview focused on the 12 year-old, and, she had me do that visualization, where I thought of myself in my room. When I was 12 I had magazine cutouts, and pictures pasted all over my wall. I had a twin bed, a lot of books. And I visualized, with her guidance, going and sitting next to myself, as I am now, with my 12 year-old self, and I of course wanted to cry and I began crying and she asked if I wanted to put my arms around her, and I did, and so I, in my mind’s eye, put my arms around my 12 year-old self. And I did a lot of weeping; I was wearing mascara, and I went into the bathroom after the interview and I saw that it had created tracks down my cheeks. My eyes were red, wet, eyelashes. My nose was swollen and rosy. And I just left it like that; I didn’t wash my face. My hair got all frizzy. I had done it up in curls; it was now just a— a big, frizzy… Amazonian mess. And I got in the nest, nude, like that, and she photographed me.
Devin: That sounds like the right way to get into a nest. I mean.
[29:42] Devin & Lila on the fire of rejection
Devin: The risk of rejection is the price that we pay for playing around and trying to win the affections of others.
Lila: And that I, I can handle it. And that’s how I came out of it was like, I am a Love Warrior. I have these tools, and I have trained, I have trained my heart by opening it up again and again and again, and being interested, and opening myself to desire, and taking risks, and allowing myself to be hurt! And allowing myself to experience joy! And excitement, and heartache and grief and figuring out, how to carry that. Because I don’t believe that heartache is the worst thing in the world! And I think that we are here to connect! And that all efforts towards connection… are worth it!
Devin: And I’m gonna tie it all back together; it goes beyond connection ‘cause you actively engaged with that 12 year-old, and really listened, but also it feels like, responded to, and had your adult voice in the conversation. It wasn’t just “Let’s hear from the inner child,” it’s, “Let’s talk about this together.”
Lila: And that’s the self-intimacy. Because when I say “intimacy” I don’t only mean connection with others. I mean seeing yourself, and being deeply seen by yourself, as well.
[31:55] Devin conjures us a 3-point spell for How to Engage Across Distance
Devin Person, my favorite wizard. Image by Mark Shaw Studio.
TO LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE:
Your patronage helps keep horizontal independent and uncensored, as well as unlocking access to all the part twos, the secret patrons Facebook group, & Intimacy Tips videos (like last month’s “How to Love Me When I’m ____”)!
