90. bicurious women, when left alone: horizontal with the co-hosts of skirt club (2 of 2)

The lovely lovelies of Skirt Club. Image by Lena Di.

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Shelby: Do you want to be friends, or do you want to be something else? Or do you want to be friends who are sometimes something else?

Lila: I think there’s an idea that it has to be simultaneous, when actually — and I understand that queer sex is more like ‘your turn, my turn’ — that tends to be more, let’s say, effective for pleasure.

Shelby: Yeah, I think like, if you like really wanna come with someone, I think mutual masturbation is really fun.

Lila: So great.

Shelby: I’m like, let’s just, like, watch each other. That’s good.

Lila: So fun.

Shelby: Then we can come at the same time. (laughs)

Genevieve: Do you find men have a real difficulty with masturbating in front of other people?

Shelby: Some men. Lila: Yes.

Lila: The ones that I’ve known, I’ve had to like coax, say, “No really, I really—“ They’re actually embarrassed.

Genevieve: Yeah.

Lila: I say, “I really want to see how you touch yourself. Please, please show me. Because I would like to learn the way that you touch yourself, the way you give yourself pleasure. I want to see.” And I have to coax and cajole a little bit and gently try to— yeah, draw them into it. And some of them are like, “No.” (giggles)

Genevieve: Yeah, I get a lot of flat ‘no’s.’ I’m like, “Yeh, okay, well I’ll just carry on then!” (all chuckle) ‘Cause I have no shame!

Lila: I think a lot of women who would like to have sex with women, like me, are nervous. And, I think one of the things is: Am I going to like the taste? I think another thing is: If I don’t like it then maybe I’m not actually queer and I don’t get to, to be with women in any way. I think another is: Even though I have one, I know that this person is different and what if I’m just, rubbish at it and I’m (laughs) not giving this person pleasure at all! And then, I think another is, is that one that I expressed: If I begin, it’s not okay to say, “I’m sorry I actually don’t want to f— continue.”

Shelby: Right. Yeah, I think that those are all totally valid concerns that should each be addressed with the woman that you are doin’ that with. Right, like asking questions. If you’re scared you’re not gonna be good at it, be like, “What’s the thing you like?” Right, ‘cause everyone— everyone likes, whether they like circles or back and forth, whatever, like they all like different things. My most successful encounters with women, like the girl I’m dating right now, her and I had a very explicit conversation at dinner, not in the bedroom at all.

Lila: Yeah.

Shelby: It was like, “What is something that you like?” And she was like, Oh, I like like this, I like like this. And then we went and had sex, I made her come, and we were like, Cool, we did it! We like high-fived afterwards. (Lila giggles) But I think both of us were like, nervous about… performing well.

Genevieve: How to scissor?

Lila: How you scissor. Right, ‘cause I imagine it’s quite different for different humans.

Genevieve: Okay, so basically you’re both naked, making out, whatever. And then suddenly, like a magnet, you leap on her, (everybody cracks up) ‘cause you can’t stand it anymore, (all still laughing) and then your legs— ‘cause of course, it’s not my fault, ‘cause it’s happening to me, I’m not happening to it, right, ‘cause I’m British, and then so—

Lila: You’re being leapt.

Genevieve: Yeah. (laughing)

Lila: You’re—

Genevieve: It’s all passive.

Shelby: Something within me! It’s not me!

Lila: Something within you has leapt you… over to her.

Genevieve: Yeah, so, your vaginas become like two magnets and kssh! (magnet sound effect) interlock, and your legs are entwined, and then you’re just gonna grind, for what could be four hours, I don’t know. But I seem to lose myself in sense of time.

Lila: I really do like that idea of having that conversation before you get in bed. But I think that, for instance, I talked with, I had a horizontal episode with the guys of The Discerning Dick, and they host this series where dudes talk to dudes about sexuality. A lot of dudes are scared to have their safer sex talk over dinner, because of the concern that the woman that they want to see, ‘cause these are heterosexual men, will consider it presumptuous.

Shelby: That’s fair; I wouldn’t have had that— we had already had sex.

Lila: Oh, okay.

Shelby: Yeah, this was like, we had had sex, and, had enjoyed being around each other but hadn’t made each other come. And we’re like, We haven’t quite done that. Why not? What are we missin’?

Lila: Hmmm, that’s nice, like a download almost.

Shelby: Yeah.

Lila: I think I’m much more nervous — and maybe it’s simply lack of experience — about approaching a woman with my attraction or desire. Somehow I think that that rejection is going to be far far worse.

Shelby: Oh it is. (everyone laughs)

Hello my patron.

Greetings from horizontal Shelby.

Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Genevieve and Shelby of Skirt Club— the private women’s club & sex party for the curious kind.

Hello from lingerie-clad Genevieve.

In episode 89. death, sex, & skirts, we talked about the death of Mirelle’s partner Max, and his funeral, magical thinking, how Genevieve was taught nothing about sex growing up, and Shelby learned through books left on her bed. We talked about Shelby’s matter-of-fact-ness and my reaction to it. British humor, awkwardness, media, and drunk sex. The internet as a safe haven, Shelby’s first period, and how none of us want children. Genevieve told us the story of marrying a man when she never wanted to marry anyone. We talked about having very little sex, personally, in a life that’s full of it, marital bed death & resensitization, the 4pm masturbation break, a brief history of Shelby’s search for orgasm, my deep envious crushes on girls, the kind of women we’re attracted to, distinguishing bisexual, pansexual, & biromantic, and how Genevieve’s ex was repulsed by her interest in women.

In this part, we discuss:

* pseudonyms, alter egos, and wanderlust

* that almost-foursome in Hong Kong with Genevieve’s first lady lover

* their multiorgasmic-ness: Shelby’s 16 orgasms in an hour, and Genevieve’s 12

We talk about:

* taking sex in turns

* the first time a woman goes down on a woman

* and the ruthlessness a climax requires

We also discuss:

* my fear of being rejected by one of the few women I’m attracted to

* sexy friendships & female sexual fluidity

* the joy of scissoring

* my Miami revelation: that I could be a sex twice-a-day person

* Shelby’s 21-times-in-one-night sex

* the origin story of Skirt Club, created as an antidote to performative bisexual encounters

* how she & Shelby came together to pursue this mission

* and why there isn’t a similar community for bicurious men.

Then, Genevieve gives me permission to watch like I want to.

And then, after Shelby had to leave, I realized that we hadn’t talked about… money.

We’d talked about death. We’d talked about sex. I wanted to complete the trifecta of taboo subjects, so Genevieve and I re-horizontalized and recorded an addendum to the episode.

Until next time: May you have someone to love, something to do, and something to look forward to. I’m looking forward to my visit to… Miami. I hope it means what you think it means.

Come lie down with us again in the Financial District of New York, New York.

And thank you. Thank you for being my patron.