This is Burl on the TV! Singing his solo on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend!
63. I love you and I beat you to it: horizontal with an actor-romantic
In this and next week’s episode, I lie down with my college friend, the actor-romantic, Triple Threat, improviser, mimic, voice-over artist, chameleon, ham, and all-around delightful, well-adjusted human, Burl Moseley. He’s such a phenom that he recently got his own song on the musical TV show Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.
Lila: I’m surprised that, having older brothers, you didn’t hear anything… about The Sex.
Burl: Nnn. I think because of the way that our mom raised us, we’re all very, respectful people and, and um, the nice thing is I never heard, either of my brothers speak about women in a, derogatory fashion, which I think is (Lila mm’s) common of — or it can be common — um, of adolescent boys, especially in groups.
Lila: Oh yes.
Burl: Which is actually why I’m very selective about my, male friends— I didn’t realize it, until uh, I had a, had a girlfriend some years ago and she was like, “You know you have a lot of female friends. Like, your female friends outnumber your male friends,” and I was like, “Do they?” (Lila chuckles) And I like, went into my Facebook, and I started counting, and I was like, Oh my God, she’s right. And I was like, Huh. I wonder why this is. And so I was like, You know what, let me investigate this. (Lila mmhm’s) So. There was a group of guys, that I knew— we had all done like, you know, a film shoot together— a short film. And I was like, Let me get these guys together! (Lila chuckles) So we all got together, all went hangin’ out, we’re at this bar, hangin’ out, and then I was like, Ohh. This is why. Some of the casual misogyny that was just being thrown around, I was like, Ohhhhhh, I’m not down with this. (Lila mmhm’s) Like I don’t like this. I was like, Oooh, I can’t treat people this way— and so I was like, I was like, “Allright, uhhh, guys, I’m gonna pack it in!” (Lila and Burl crack up)
Lila: But they didn’t know; you didn’t tell ‘em.
Burl: It’s one of those things where like, it was before like the whole checkyourboys movement—
#checkyourboys = a hashtag representing a movement against toxic masculinity which encouraged men to stand up to their male peers and call them out on sexist, misogynistic ideas, jokes, and language. This movement is predicated on the idea that, though women bear the brunt of sexual harassment, it isn’t a women’s issue— it’s a men’s problem.
Office Boys on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend
Burl: — and like, stuff like that, and I just, I was so flabbergasted, and it was such a discovery for me, (Lila mmhm’s) to be like, Oh this is why I’m so selective about my guy friends is ‘cause I don’t, I’m not down with talking to women that way or treating women that way. And I just didn’t want to be around it. You know what I mean? I was like, I have to excuse myself.
Lila: I think I often choose to absent myself rather than fight or—
Burl: Right, right.
Lila: — or call out, or—
Burl: You know also, also the thing is like — and I’ve read, I’ve read several articles on this, but one in particular that struck me and, you know, and people’ll be like, “Aw, man, you know, you still gotta try.” It’s like, it is incredibly difficult, nigh— if not near-impossible— to change someone’s mind once they have a belief. […]
Lila: The only thing I can think of that actually does that, is trauma.
Burl: Mmm, ok.
Lila: A traumatic event, somebody dies, somebody witnesses something horrible, somebody—
Burl: Right.
Lila: — experiences an accident or an illness or someth— that’s the only thing that I— like the rock bottomness of an alcoholic or—
Burl: Mmhm, mmhm, mmhm.
Lila: — the death of a parent, or the death of a child or—
Burl: Right, right.
Welcome, hiii! Welcome to the podcast of intimacies recorded while reclining. You’ve heard of SlowTV? This is Slow Radio.
We don robes, lie down, share a single pillow, and invite you in, to eavesdrop on our conversation about sex, love, and relationships of all kinds.
In this and next week’s episode, I lie down with my college friend, the actor-romantic, Triple Threat, improviser, mimic, voice-over artist, chameleon, ham, and all-around delightful, well-adjusted human, Burl Moseley.
He’s such a phenom that he recently got his own song on the musical TV show Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. If I were you, just before listening to this episode, I’d go straight to YouTube and type in “Don’t be a Lawyer.” He sings, acts, and dances the bejeesus out of it, in a full-on bright-pink 90s suit with a chunky tie. I have watched it an embarrassing number of times, I have insisted that my housemates watch it, and when I arrived at Burl’s apartment to record this episode in early December, I danced around his place singing it back to him. I’m reaally into it. And if you’ve ever known a lawyer (and I’ve dated two!) I’m pretty sure you will be into it as well.
In fact: here. You’re welcome.
Don’t Be A Lawyer – feat. Burl Moseley – “Crazy Ex-Girlfriend”
Buy the season 4 album here: https://lnk.to/ceg4 Don’t Be A Lawyer Starring Burl Moseley, Clark Moore Written by Rachel Bloom, Jack Dolgen, & Adam Schlesinger Jim: TWENTY YEARS OLD, PRETTY SMART KID DIDN’T KNOW WHAT I WANTED TO DO SO I TOOK THE LSAT AND THEN, JUST LIKE THAT GOT
Burl and I both went to NYU’s Tisch School of the Arts for Drama. He was a luminary in my favorite improv troupe, and I always made it a point to show up to their shows and cheer them on. Improv was never my thing, but Burl is a natural improviser … I think that’s part of the reason he’s so good at life-ing.
In this first half of our conversation, we talk about the origins of being a “live wire,” the two types of military kids, making as many friends as possible, casual misogyny and male friends, Burl’s “showing out” at school, my “attitude problem,” our childhood celebrity crushes, how Burl felt about his parent’s PDA, the first kiss ritual, the mom & dad sofa, and trying to undo the damage that Disney has done.
If you enjoy cozying up with us, and want to listen to next week’s episode with Burl (episode 64), become a patron of the horizontal arts. Patreon is the love child of crowdfunding and a subscription service, and you can access all the part twos of every episode by becoming a patron of $5 a month or more.
Welcome to my newest patrons: Michael and Daniel, and an extra joyous thank you to Tiana, Rex, and Donald, for raising their pledges this month!
I’m deeply committed to Intimacy Maven as a career choice, and continuing to create work that diminishes loneliness, dispels shame, and alchemizes human connection, in multiple mediums. You can help me happen it.
I have some exciting twists coming for Season Three, which will start in the next couple of months, and I’ll also be revamping my Patreon tiers then, so if you want to be grandfathered in at the $5 level (meaning that the tier will go up, but you’ll still get access to all the episodes) go to Patreon now, dahling, and become part of my mission to make the world a more intimate place!
For more horizontality in your inbox once a week-ish (okay, full disclosure, lately it’s been once a month-ish), sign up on horizontalwithlila.com for my raw personal writing, photos of me horizontal in unexpected places, images of my guests and links to the show notes, and the occasional bit of additional fabulosity, like a plug for my sex educator housemate’s online course on how to be a great lover.
And now, come lie down with us, in a place called Hollywood, in Los Angeles, California.
horizontal with Burl in L.A. December 2018
Links to Things:
Burl on the interwebz: Insta & imdb
An article about the #checkyourboys movement, which operates on the principle that sexual harassment is not a women’s issue— it’s a men’s problem.
Show Notes (feel free to share quotes/resources on social media, and please link to this website or my Patreon!):
website link: https://horizontalwithlila.com/
Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/horizontalwithlila
[5:36] In college, Burl reminded Lila of the handsome and talented Marque Lynche, who she went to high school with and who is now deceased.
[7:32] How Burl grew up all around the United States.
[8:12] Burl on his wonderful sex ed teacher.
Burl: I was fortunate, because, when the sex ed time came up, I was […] I was in California and I was blessed with this wonderful sex ed teacher—
Lila: (loudly) Really?!
Burl: Yeah.
Lila: (again loudly) Literally never heard anybody say that.
Burl: Really?
Lila: Yes!
Burl: Oh man, yeah, it was pretty great, like she was so frank, and like, she was like, “I don’t care if you guys are embarrassed; you need to know this.” And we were like, “Okay!”
Lila: (gasps) That’s so great! Do you remember her name?
Burl: Mrs. Bayer. […]
Lila: Thanks, Mrs. Bayer!
Burl: Yeah. Really lovely, lovely lady.
Lila: So, was it just condom-on-banana… period… how to make a baby—
Burl: No, it was every—
Lila: Or did she go—
Burl: It was everything, it was contraceptives— they covered all the contraceptives that were available at the time, condoms and how to use them, how to put them on, female contraception, you know, birth control and everything. You know, and she had— her big thing was like, “Your hormones are raging,” she’s like, “I try to tell people: the kids, when they’re ready, are going to have The Sex.”
Lila: (laughs) Definitely.
Burl: […] I don’t think there was like, a big abstinence push at the time. It was just like, Look, if you’re going to do it, be protected, and, condoms were available— you know, if you needed them.
[10:00] Burl on elementary school sex ed and the opt-out.
Burl: When I was a little kid though, in elementary school […] that was like intro stuff, […] that was like, If you’re a boy, these are the parts that you have; if you’re a girl, these are the parts that you have, and this is how a baby is made, and this is how a baby is brought into the world and stuff like that. But then the, the craziest thing about that was that: you could opt out of it. Like some kids had their parents sign this thing that was like, You will not teach sex education to my kid.
Lila: Wow.
Burl: And it was only a handful of kids, but, I remember when they weren’t there, I was like, Wow, really?
Lila: And often those are the ones who get pregnant, right, and have—
Burl: Mmhm. […] I was like, Really? I was like, I feel like this is im— portant stuff.
Lila: Had you gotten any sex ed at home before that?
Burl: Yes. Yes. Because I had questions. And um— actually I al— I already knew about it; I learned about sex in the first grade, because I was curious about it, and there was uh, this 6th grader — top of the class at the school — and he was playing basketball. Just shooting around some hoops on the court and I was like, Ah, this guy probably knows somethin’. (Lila chuckles) So as a first grader I walked up to him and I was like, “Ah-he-hem: What Is Sex?”
Lila: (high-pitched giggle) Really?
Burl: Yeah. And without skipping a beat, he was bouncing his basketball, he was like, “It’s when a boy’s thing goes into a girl’s thing.” And I was like, pSSSSHHHHHHH! (the sound of a brain exploding) And I was like, “Thank you for telling me this.” I was like, Why do adults make it, like it’s such a big secret? I was like, It’s such a simple explanation. And then I remember one time, when I was at home, I was also in elementary school — the family was all watching the Family Feud. I don’t remember what the question was but, one of the answers— Oh! It was, Things a Woman Might Have in Her Purse. And one of the answers that popped up on the board was condoms. And I was like, Oh I don’t know that word. And so, I said to my mom, I was like, “Mom, what’s— what are condoms?” And there was a pause. And then she went, “It’s something that a man puts over his penis, when he enters a woman’s vagina and they have sex to prevent pregnancy.” I said, “Oh, okay great. Thank you.”
Lila: (giggles) Right. Simple as that.
[12:31] The landscape of Burl’s nuclear family.
[13:40] Burl on being raised to respect women, and how that has affected his friendships with men.
[17:08] Does Lila have any family?
Burl: Do you have any family, any brothers or sisters?
Lila: I don’t.
Burl: (surprised) Really, you’re an only child?
Lila: Yeah!
Burl: I did not know that!
Lila: Yeah, and I think that’s part of why I, have just pretty much always been so lonely.
[17:20] Lila on the landscape of her (significantly smaller) nuclear family, her parent’s divorce, and her terrible horrible no good very bad time in middle school.
[20:07] Burl on the two types of military kids.
I mean, with THIS SMILE?!
Burl: When you’re growin’ up military, and you’re a military kid, I feel like you become one of two types kids, and that’s like: you move to a new place, and you either, you’re like, “Okay, I don’t know how long I’m gonna be here, so I’m just gonna keep to myself, I’m not gonna get to know anybody, I don’t wanna get close to anyone, right? ‘Cause then they’re gonna be (dramatic movie voice) ripped from my life.” (Lila mmm’s) Or! You become the kind of person that I became, and that was, I don’t know how much time I got here, so I gotta make as many friends as possible!
Lila: (laughs) What a beautiful response!
Burl: I would just jump in, I’d be like, “Hi! I’m Burl! What types of things do you like? I like video games and I like basketball!” (Lila laughs delightedly) “Do you like any of those things? Where do you live? How close do you— how close to me are you?”
Lila: “Can we play?”
Burl: “Can we play? You wanna play? Do you like to ride bikes? I love to ride bikes.” (both laugh)
Lila: Oh, it’s so wonderful! And it worked, I’m assuming?
Burl: Yeah yeah yeah it worked! It worked out great!
[21:05] On Burl’s natural inclination towards gregariousness, and getting in trouble for “showing out” at school. Burl’s teacher called him a “live wire.”
[23:48] On Lila’s attitude problem (in school).
[26:20] When did Burl start acting? The “E is for his Everlasting Love” church play.
[29:07] Lila inquires about Burl’s church.
Lila: So you didn’t have the, hellfire and damnation if you have sex before marriage, thing?
Burl: No, at least not from my parents. No, there was no hellfire and damnation. It didn’t— just as much as it didn’t really come up. ‘Cause I was a kid at the time… you know? And they weren’t like, (growls, first in a movie voice, then with a Southern accent) “Now you listen kids, if you engage in carnal behavior, then you will burn for eternity in the fires o’ hell!” No, there was none of that, there was none of that. Which I appreciated. And there was also a time when I kind of like, woke up to it all, and, and by that I mean, you know, not to say that like, all religion is bad, but, […] the thing I didn’t understand the most was— it was around the time when like the AIDS epidemic was going on, and people were talking about gays and gay marriage and all this stuff, and a lot of this didn’t go on in my church, but I saw it on television. I didn’t understand how people could call themselves Christians, (Lila mmhm’s) and yet have so much hatred towards a group of people—
Lila: Yeah.
Burl: Any group of people, but particularly, gay people. And I was like, I just never hear on the news, like, “3 gay men broke into a home and slaughtered an entire family,”
Lila: (laughing) Oh my God.
Burl: You know what I mean?
Lila: Yeah!
Burl: Like I was never hearing any of that on the news, and I was like, I was like, and, I was like, You guys are Christians, right? The first rule of it basically is like, God loves all of his children!”
Lila: Love people!
Burl: Yeah, and to love, thy neighbor as thyself. I was like, Whhhy is that so hard?
Lila: Where’s the disconnect here? Yeah.
Burl: Then I realized, Oh my God, it’s fear. Because people fear what they don’t understand. And a lot of these people that— ‘cause I see it all the time, a lot of these people that are like, “Oh, you know, homosexuals,” this and that, […] and then, their child, happens to be gay or lesbian—
Lila: Right.
Burl: And then, wow, look at how they turn around. “Well I didn’t know it could be my kid. But I love him or her!”
Lila: Well you hope they turn around.
Burl: You hope they turn around.
Lila: I hear lots of stories of—
Burl: Yeah, sometimes they get disowned.
Lila: — of, not.
Burl: Sometimes they get disowned.
Lila: Yeah.
Burl: That’s so sad. You’re like, Really? Disowned because of their sexuality?
Lila: I know.
Burl: Something that they had no control over? Really?
Lila: Also, what is the skin off your nose! […] What does it even have to do with you?
Burl: It has nothing to do with them. But then people are like, “Oh well you know, they had a choice!” And I was like, “Alright, well you’re a guy, right?” “Yeah.” “When did you choose to start liking girls?” . . . Silence. (Lila chuckles) “Or, you’re a woman, right? When did you choose to start liking men?” … Silence. You know? And I’m like, “Hm. Think about that.”
[32:10] What is an early memory of Burl liking a girl?
[32:24]
Burl: I remember being a kid, and they show all those old reruns on TV all the time. And I remember I caught a rerun of …
Lila: I Dream of Jeannie! No!
Burl: No.
Lila: No.
Sigh! Lynda Carter as Wonder Woman.
Burl: (quietly) Wonder Woman. (big in-gasp from Lila) And I remember looking at Wonder Woman and being like (whispering) She’s amazing! (Lila giggles) And then I remember finding out that it was played by an actress, named Lynda Carter. And I was like, “! She’s so great!” And then I was like, Wow, and at the time, you know, as a kid, I didn’t know why, but I remember being like, I just need to watch Wonder Woman, do her thing. And then I would like, be spinning around the house, you know, ‘cause she like, used to spin around in a circle to like, change into her outfit—
Lila: OooOOOh!
Burl: And I was like, I was like, I need to transFORM! I need to go, fight this CRIME! (Lila giggles) You know what I mean? And I just always thought she was like… ah, man, I was like, That Lynda Carter. Was like, whenever she was on the TV, no matter what game I was playing or, you know, what toys I was playing with, I was like, Y’all can wait. Wonder Woman’s on. I remember she just made me feel like— I don’t wanna say “tingly,” but, there was somethi— there was an awareness. There was an awareness. And I was like, I don’t know why. But, you know, now that I’m older, I know.
[34:08] Who was Lila’s childhood celebrity crush? (Hint: She loved musicals.)
P.S. Lila likes Wonder Woman, too. Photo by Julie Savage Lee Photography.
[35:07] Why Lila never pursued musical theatre, and her mom’s opinion.
Lila: But I never did musical theatre, because […] my mom, when I was a kid, and I would sing, and I was probably trying to imitate New Kids on the Block or something, you know, I was probably just trying to imitate what I heard, and I’m a pretty good mimic, […] she would say, “Why are you singing through your nose? You sing through your nose. Stop singing through your nose.” And, just that was enough, (sympathetic sounds from Burl) it’s just amazing what’s, what, can seep in to kid’s consciousness. Because that was enough to keep me from training my voice. (Burl ohhhs) For most of my life.
Burl: You have a lovely voice, by the way. (Lila mewls) I was gonna say that earlier.
Lila: (mewling) Thank you.
Burl: I was like, Oh, she knows. I was like, I don’t have to say it. But now, I was like, Maybe you should say it.
Lila: Oh, it really means something when people say it, because it’s like I’m— it’s like the scales, […] and I envisioned my mom’s opinion as a— when I was a child, you know, it’s so heavy and so I just like and adding these little— you know, every time one of my yoga students says “Oh my God, what a lovely! You should record that!” You know, I just like, add it to the scale, hoping that someday it’s—
Burl: It will balance, yeah.
Lila: It’s just gonna balance out. […] But it really goes to show, how incredibly… hard children can take something and how […] it gets ingrained in their brains and can keep us from, from excelling or from using a gift.
Burl: Absolutely.
Lila: I’m still mad at her for that; I don’t think I’ve ever told her that I’m mad at her for that. […] Oh no I think I did tell her!
Burl: Oh! What’d she say; did she even remember?
Lila: She did not remember.
Burl: Yeah that’s, that’s the way it is. […] ‘Cause it means nothing to them. You know? But it means so much. To us. […]
Lila: To this day she hasn’t complimented my voice, even though she heard me a few years ago. […] It’s very odd, ‘cause she doesn’t sing well.
Burl: Ahhh.
Lila: Maybe that, maybe that’s why.
Burl: That’s why. She’s like, “Dang, she turned out to be a really good singer.” (melodrama voice) “Better than me!”
Lila: It’s so strange though, because she compliments me about everything else! […] I don’t know that she even knows that she withheld her approval in this area. […] I don’t know that I told her how much it stunted me. How I really wanted to, go this one way but I, felt, that I wasn’t good enough.
[38:08] Lila on seeing her mom for the first time since the disastrous Thanksgiving of 2017.
Lila: She and I have got a lot to unpack. We’re just tryna— we’re just tryna be okay, with each other, you know? I just went down to see her and, it was the first time I’d seen her— a year ago, I went down for Thanksgiving, annnd… mmm, we got in a… fight, and I told her that I (quietly) didn’t feel love for her.
Burl: (under his breath) Ohhh, shit.
Lila: Yeah. And… and that it was really just wrapped up in obligation, annnd I have an awareness of how horrible that is to say, to . . . someone who loves you so much.
Burl: Right.
Lila: But it is also— … was also, the truth. (Burl mmhm’s) And . . . . . I think it… it relieved a lot of pressure, actually, for me. Because for a while I could just— I was on a road trip, I, I left early, I was like, “I’m sorry, I just need to go.” And I—
Burl: Yeah.
Lila: Left and, and then for a little while I didn’t feel that pressure to tell her that I love her on the phone, and I didn’t— I wasn’t keeping to this weekly, Skype date that I had set a time for so she would feel less anxious; I just wasn’t keeping to that. (Burl mmhm’s) And I just gave myself more space. […] Part of it is that— I don’t know if you know this, but when I was 7, 8, and 9, my mom was in the hospital for colon cancer.
Burl: (quietly) No, I didn’t know that.
Lila: And so, there’s some, some abandonment, there, (Burl mmhm’s) right, ‘cause she just wasn’t, she couldn’t be around and she couldn’t— she was sick so she needed care, so she couldn’t care for me, although she did her best to bring me to a babysitter that had a lot of love, and and and tenderness for me, […] but she wasn’t there. For… reasons beyond her control. […] And then she’s also been battling manic depression, for most of her life.
Burl: Ohw. That’s hard.
Lila: And took lithium, which is really, a really really harsh […] drug where the difference between a healthy dose and an unhealthy dose is (long inhale) thin? […] And she had been taking it for manymany years because for a long time that was the only thing that was prescribed for people with manic depression. […] And then at one point, when I was living in Portland, it actually built up in her blood to a toxic level so that she had an overdose.
Burl: (gasp) Oh jeez.
Lila: When I couldn’t get ahold of her on the phone I was like, That’s weird; that’s unusual. So I called her friend to go over and she was just like lying on the floor in the living room, looking up at this gallery of pictures of us that she has, and pictures of me that she has on her living room wall, and, incoherent, basically.
Burl: (softly) Aw no.
Lila: And then they took her to the hospital and put her on dialysis, and they said, you know, “We don’t know if she’s ever gonna speak again.”
Burl: Oh my goodness.
Lila: And I was, twenty… six? Maybe, twenty-four, maybe. And I was like, I feel too young to deal with this! And I’m an only child, so there’s nobody else, you know. My dad did come down to help, help out, but […] I felt, pretty overwhelmed. […] And she did, eventually, start speaking again. And, when she started to speak again, she spoke in Portuguese.
Burl: (cartoon surprised sound) Wha?!
Lila: Because she’s a Brazilian.
Burl: Oh, Okay! Oh wow!
Lila: And, often, people, after a traumatic event, when they lose their power of speech, they might, begin to speak again, in their first language.
Burl: Oh wow.
Lila: I had grown up kind of resisting— not wanting to be different, probably— resisting learning Portuguese, because there weren’t people in my sphere except for my mom, who, who spoke it. (Burl mmhm’s) But I had gone, right after college— she had offered it throughout high school, I didn’t want to do it; I was in an arts high school. I wanted to graduate. She had offered it, you know, between high school and college, I was like, No, I want to go straight to NYU. She offered it during NYU; I was like, No, I want to finish my program. And then afterwards I said, “Okay. Now’s the time.” And because she was ill, you know, she had offered it and pushed it and pushed it, and then, she said, “How would you feel if I died while you were there?” … And I was like, What the fuck! I don’t think she remembers saying that.
Burl: Wow.
Lila: But the, the manipulation of that—
Burl: Right.
Lila: I think that— I’m not sure that— she did wind up sending me, but I’m not sure that I’ve ever forgiven her for that kind of extreme guilt tripping manipulation. I was like, “You were the one who wanted me to go! And to learn and!” So I did go, right after college, I went for three months that summer, of 2000, and I lived with my late aunt, and, she didn’t speak much English, and I played capoeira, and the whole turma was pretty— you know, they were of a class that didn’t learn English […] and so I had to f— I wanted so much to communicate with them and to be a part of it. So I learned. […] And I also had some private classes, twice a week, so those three things, those three components, had me learn, and I came back, pretty much fluent, and […] 2003 – 2009 I would speak with my mom on the phone, in Portuguese, and when this happened, I was in the hospital and I was able to translate, because I could understand her.
Burl: Wow. Woooow. Holy. That’s major. […]
Lila: So last year, Thanksgiving, you know, I just kind of ruined Thanksgiving (Burl chuckles under his breath) and left. (laughs) I really did! Burl—
Burl: (still chuckling) Burn it all down.
Lila: I really did.
Burl: Just burn it all down. (laughs)
Lila: And, this year, November, early November, for her birthday was the first time I saw her again, so I went down for her birthday. And… it was better.
Burl: (gently) Good.
Lila teaching mom how to selfie at her 77th birthday dinner.
Lila: Like, we were actually able to have some… good times— she called me out on my, my tone with her, she’s like, “I wish you weren’t basically disgusted by me; I just don’t understand.” And I was like, “I don’t know! It’s awful! I’m so sorry!” Like, I don’t know, I don’t know what it is. I have some, ideas, as I said to you, you know, some resentments that I haven’t cleared… […] But I was able to enjoy her company and her 77th birthday dinner—
Burl: (gently) Good.
Lila: And we saw a movie together— we like period films, so we were able to, enjoy that, even though it was sad. I told her once: “When I come to see you, I need time for myself every day. I need some hours that I, have just for myself. Otherwise I—” This is how I operate; I can’t be with somebody all the time. […] I have to have that. When I didn’t have that, when I didn’t take it, I felt the difference. […] And when I did, when I went to a coffeeshop for two hours, and I wrote, and I worked on the podcast, and I did stuff— and then I came back, I was in a good mood and I gave her a hug and I was— I had something to give. […] So I think maybe I’m learning better how to deal with it. But I also— there’s also a part of me that’s like h— fuckin’ hurry up! She’s 77! And, you know, I’m like, She could die any minute, you know, I just feel this, sense of, I really want to be able to express genuine love and, and care, before she dies, you know? […] She loves me so much; she has always done the best that she possibly could for me, and I know that not many people can say that about their parents, I know that I’m fortunate! So how could I feel this w— you know, how could I feel this way about her? But of course, you castigate yourself for how you feel; it just gets worse.
[46:42] What were Burl’s parent’s like together?
Burl: It’s so funny because, people always talk about um, you know, um, “Oh yeah, my parents, man, kissin’ on each other, it’s so gross.” (Lila giggles) It always made me really happy, because I was like Oh, they’re in love! That’s what, people in love do!
Lila: Oooooohhhh, that’s so sweet!
Burl: And I can remember also, you know, growin’ up, and, y’know, bein’ a kid, havin’ all those kids in the house, every now and again you’d hear the sounds, that your parents make in the middle of the night. And I remember asking my brothers, I was like, “What’s that noise?” (Lila giggles, Burl, high-pitched) “What are they doin’?!” And my brothers were like, “Oh they’re, making love. Having sex.” And I was like, “Ohhh, of course they are.” And it always made me really happy— some people are like, (uber-dramatic) “Oh no, I can’t hear this!” I was always like, (very matter-of-fact) “Oh, good for them.” (Lila laughs) ‘Cause it’s a sense of security, like, that sound, meant, that, my family unit, had security. […] It was like, Oh good. I was like, oh, that’s part of a, a healthy marriage and relationship and I appreciate that my parents love each other enough to still engage with each other in that way.
[48:29] Were Burl’s parent’s affectionate in front of him?
Burl: So, every day, when my dad came home— so when I was a little kid, […] me and my sister used to have a competition. So my dad would come home, and he would ring the doorbell, dingalingalingalingalingalingalingaling! That’s how we always knew that it was Daddy like, dingalingalingalingalingalingalingaling! And so we would stop whatever we were doing, wherever we were in the house, and we would drop everything, we were like, “I’m gonna get the first kiss!” And she would be like, my sister would be like, “No, I’m gonna get the first kiss!” And we would like, run to the door, and my dad would open it, and we would run and like, kiss him on the cheek. And then my parents would kiss, after that. But like, it was always such a competition, like every day, it was so great. And eventually we grew out of it, but—
Lila: Awwwww.
Burl: I don’t remember, I don’t remember the exact time when like— like I don’t think I walked in the door and gave my dad a handshake, but like— (both laugh)
Lila: You stopped doing it by high school.
Burl: Yeah yeah, definitely by high school. Maybe even by junior high. I don’t remember when it phased out. But. I do remember when I was a little kid, oh my gosh, that was peak. And then, and then my parents were always very affectionate, you know, my dad and my mom always kissed whenever they would leave one another and whenever they would greet one another. There was always kisses to be had.
Lila: I bet he missed it when you stopped. (Burl chuckles) But maybe he wouldn’t say so!
Burl: Right… like “the kids used to make such a big deal when I got home!”
Lila: (giggling) Yeah!
Burl: “And now I have to come find them in their rooms somewhere.” (both chuckle)
Lila: You should start it again. When you go home for Christmas.
Burl: Well I always— you know what? I do always give my dad a kiss on the cheek whenever I see him and whenever I leave.
Oh, Burl Moseley. What an adorable headshot you have.
[50:16] What did Burl learn about relationships from observing his parents?
Burl: I learned that […] love takes… you need to nurture it, you know? It’s not just— you can’t take it for granted. It’s something that you, put effort into. […] ‘Cause I also noticed that there were times when they were like— over the years— it wasn’t all the same! It was always evolving and changing. And there were things that they would incorporate into their relationship, that I noticed that was, that was useful… […] So I remember there was a time when this didn’t exist, but now it exists: my folks always say, “I love you and I beat you to it.” (Lila chuckles) And I was like, Oh that’s interesting. That’s this little game that they play. You know?
Lila: I love you and I beat you to it. […]
Burl: What else did I learn about relationships? They were always close. Like when they could be close, they were close. They were in proximity, to one another. Like, they always sat on the m— on the mom and dad sofa. They were always sittin’ on that sofa. If you ever came down, and the TV was on, and they were both there, they were both sitting there. Och! My favorite memory! I just reminded me of my favorite memory. My faaavorite memory… was one tiiime, this was like, it must have been, maybe it was a weekend, because everybody was home. And I think I’d like, just cut the grass or something— but don’t quote me on that. (Lila giggles) I remember um, I remember my dad had done some yardwork too, which is why. So my dad was in the shower. And I remember running into my mom in the hallway. And she was like, (whispering) “Is that your dad in the shower?” And I was like, “Yeh.” And then she just like, held her finger up to her lips and she was like Shhh. And then she like, opened the door, and like, went in there (Lila giggles) and then, she was like, “Whassup!” (Lila & Burl crack up) And then I heard them like, laughing and everything, and then I’m pretty sure she like, got in there with him, and I was like, “Awwww.”
Lila: Awww, gosh!
Burl: And then I like, went to go play. You know it’s that security, it’s that thing, it’s like, My parents love one another! Don’t have to move out yet! Whoohoo!
[53:10] Are his parents his model for an ideal relationship?
63. I love you and I beat you to it: horizontal with an actor-romantic
In this and next week’s episode, I lie down with my college friend, the actor-romantic, Triple Threat, improviser, mimic, voice-over artist, chameleon, ham, and all-around delightful, well-adjusted human, Burl Moseley. He’s such a phenom that he recently got his own song on the musical TV show Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.
