Dennis E. Sarkozy & Jillian Richardson present…
99. indiana jones is my father: horizontal with chosen family (2 of 4)
horizontal is Slow Radio about intimacies of all kinds. I think of it as consensual eavesdropping – we’re lying down, wearing robes, sharing secrets, in your ears. In this, the second episode of a four-part series with those who consider themselves chosen brother and sister, I lie down with Jillian Richardson, creator of The Joy List and author of Unlonely Planet & her housemate Dennis E.
Dennis: My mom is absolutely wonderful… and… we had such a tight-knit community of her closest friends and my friends, and we spent so— like, our house was always open, doors were open, there was always people running around… so that feeling of chosen family felt so organic, to know that: it isn’t simply our nuclear family that sees us, and provides us comfort, and models, and that we go to for help. But I knew that I could go to any of my aunts— my mom’s closest friends who lived on the street… and any one of their houses were open and we’d have dinner all around, or we were always having— it was strange that there would be a time that there wasn’t like 6 kids in our house every afternoon, y’know? So that we were— we always felt a part of something, had a rich feeling of community growing up.
***
Dennis: I started this exercise of mapping my family tree— and this was a creative family tree based on people who had the largest impact on me. And it came out of a conversation at a party where one of my friends had mentioned how she’s the product of Weird Al Yankovic and David Bowie.
Lila: Oh, I seee! Like Bevin said her gender is Dolly Parton & Miss Piggy!
Jillian: YESSS. Dennis: Yes.
Dennis: And out of it was thinking, “Oh, I wonder who my parents are.” And realized, immediately—
Lila: Oh, wow! I’m so excited!
Dennis: So I had realized, without hesitation— I was like, “Oh, Indiana Jones is my dad.”
Lila: Hot!
Dennis: As, for those years, between 3 and 10 — this was the golden age of VHS tapes — so we had a VCR and TV’s in every room, and we had—
Lila: I remember.
Dennis: — we had a TV-on-family, so, there was always just a constant, low drone of TV’s, on in the background, thankfully usually without news, but it was just with whatever was on the TV, and we had on Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade on at least 4, probably 8 times a week, for probably 5 years.
Lila: Wow!
Dennis: So I’ve spent more time with Indiana Jones than any other male role model.
Lila: You were raised by Indiana Jones.
Dennis: Indiana Jones is my father.
***
Jillian: I have a fear of people being— and of course, like, literally, the more stuff I do, the more I’m gonna have to deal with this shit, which is a gift — but of people being like, “Jillian says she’s all about community, but, she’s like, mean to people, or she like, doesn’t give people her time, or she’s bad at deepening friendships, so like, she’s a fake, and everything she’s saying is like, so she can get attention, and she doesn’t actually care about people.” And that’s literally only because I’ve had a few interactions with people that just like highlighted that part of myself that’s afraid people will think that. And now I’m so sensitive to doing things that will be seen as like, not in line with my values. Which on like the one hand is totally good, because yeah, I want to be challenged to live in alignment with my values, and if I’m out of alignment with my values, like, yeah, challenge me, ‘cause that’s how I become a better person. But at the same time, it’s like… the Wounded Healer Syndrome of like, I care about this stuff ‘cause I struggle with it, like everyone else. And I can’t be perfect at it.
Lila: Which is what I think is actually so powerful be— and interesting, because you lead with that in every email. In every email, you make an effort to lead with something that is not perfect about you. And I really appreciate that.
***
Jillian: My parents… were not bringing her up because they didn’t… For two reasons. They didn’t know how, and also they didn’t want me to be sad. But also, they didn’t really— they just didn’t have the tools! To have that kind of emotional conversation. And so we were having this very bizarre family experience where a quarter of our family was missing, and we were pretending like it wasn’t happening. And I couldn’t get them to talk about it even if I tried.
horizontal is Slow Radio about intimacies of all kinds. I think of it as consensual eavesdropping — we’re lying down, wearing robes, sharing secrets, in your ears.
Hi, Jillian.
In this, the second episode of a four-part series with a chosen brother and sister, I lie down with Jillian Richardson, creator of The Joy List and author of Unlonely Planet & her housemate Dennis E. Sarkozy, Lifestyle Designer and co-lead of Personal Development Nerds.
Each horizontal conversation is typically between 3 and 5 hours long.
When it’s 3 hours long, it gets divided into two parts: part one is available to everyone in all the podcast places, and part two is available exclusively to my patrons.
Hi, Dennis.
When the conversation goes for most of the night, like this one did, it gets divided into four parts: parts one and two are available to everyone, and parts three and four are available exclusively to patrons of the horizontal arts.
In part one of this conversation, episode 98. withhelds & unsaids, Jillian and I cleared the air after our cancelled sleepover event, I shared how I feel about Dennis, and we talked about the difference between being drawn to someone and being attracted to them, The Touch Gauntlet, safeporting, and a distinction between sensual and sexual energy. Then, I made an erotic confession. One that’s still giving me a vulnerability hangover.
In this, part two, we discuss:
Love for Jillian’s book, Unlonely Planet, heart-full book about seeking, curating, and creating the kinds of communities that truly nourish us
- Dennis’s creative family tree, including Indiana Jones
- his communal roots, and early experiences with chosen family
- his mother’s indomitable matriarchal strength
- his biological father who preferred not to be a father
- the crush in kindergarten that lead to a bit of violence with a block
- his grade school infatuation with each of the girls in his class, in turn
- passing the torch, becoming the patrons and matrons and caretakers of our families
- Jillian presences that she’s feeling distant
- we grapple with my intentions for making our clearing part of the recording
- we discuss having a good public image
- the Wounded Healer syndrome
- the brief personal essay Jillian shares at the outset of every Joy List email, which often reveals something she is actively struggling with
- and then Jillian shares the story of how she induced her parents to attend a 5-day family therapy retreat
I am in awe of it.
To listen to part three, in which we get into Jillian’s household growing up, that incident with the vibrator, Dennis’s high school work as a peer-to-peer Sex Educator, his relationship with his biological brothers, the topography of our friendship lives, and how Dennis used to rely entirely on his long-term relationship to get his intimacy needs met — for access to The Full Horizontal, including part three and four of this conversation, become a patron of the horizontal arts.
Be a part of my mission to make the world a more intimate place, continuing to create independent, uncensored, sex-positive work.
Jillian has been a patron of the horizontal arts for over a year! Lookit her repping horizontal alongside The Joy List while co-working in Brooklyn!
If you haven’t yet hit the subscribe button in your podcast player of choice, would you do that? It makes a real difference. Thanks!
This is episode 99, and since the next episode is 100, (100! Something to celebrate!) I may have a bit of a surprise experiment coming next week… or maybe just a surprise. I’m not sure.
But until next time: May you have someone to love (I’m especially wishing that for myself right now). May you have something to do. And may you have at least one thing to look forward to.
Lila & Samia at horizontal + chill, Sept. 2019. Loz Photography
I’m looking forward to Samia’s wedding!
Can you believe it? Samia, of episodes:
59. i’m gonna fuck him forEVER
and
… is getting married to a man on November 19th. The theme of her wedding is death and rebirth. She is wearing a skeleton catsuit, to the great chagrin of her mom. I can’t wait. There will be photos.
Thank you for listening. Thank you for getting horizontal.
And now, come lie down with us again in Williamsburg, Brooklyn.
horizontal with Jillian & Dennis before recording this episode. Williamsburg, Brooklyn. October 2019
99. indiana jones is my father: horizontal with chosen family (2 of 4)
horizontal is Slow Radio about intimacies of all kinds. I think of it as consensual eavesdropping – we’re lying down, wearing robes, sharing secrets, in your ears. In this, the second episode of a four-part series with those who consider themselves chosen brother and sister, I lie down with Jillian Richardson, creator of The Joy List and author of Unlonely Planet & her housemate Dennis E.
