l-r: Shelby, Genevieve, & the ladies of Skirt Club. Photographed by Lena Di.
89. death, sex, & skirts: horizontal with the co-hosts of skirt club (1 of 2)
Season 3 mostly consists of threesomes, and in this episode I lie down with the founder – as well as the New York City host – of Skirt Club, a private women’s club for the curious kind. Skirt Club is also the name of their sex party, an event designed exclusively for women to explore their bicuriosity.
Shelby: I think that in Western society, we don’t talk about death much; we’re really bad at it, and then it comes, and we all act really shocked, and you’re like, “This was fuckin’ comin’. Everyone dies. And I actually think it’s really beneficial to — open that conversation earlier. There are a lot of other cultures where, death is just a part of— the circle of life and, they’re less scared to talk about it. I think in America— and in like Britain for sure, too, it’s just like, that’s, we just don’t talk. About it at all.
Lila: Yeah. My grandma died around 15 years ago I think, and when I saw her in the casket, I thought: Oh that’s not her anymore. And then I had this really visceral sense of, Oh, the thing that animates… is no longer there. So there is, there is a division, between this, like what is the body and the vehicle, and then, the other stuff. The stuff that makes the person go. And that stuff is no longer there now. I think it allowed me to ….. so the word that comes is “accept” but I don’t think that that’s the word that I want. It maybe was just: recognize… that it was true. And, whatever made my grandmother a person, was not there now, now there was just a body. Also, when um, whatever chemicals they have to put inside the person to preserve them, enough for you to be able to look at them—
Genevieve: Yeah, formaldehyde’s smelly.
Lila: — and not smell them. Or, er, not smell the other things that you would smell if they didn’t have that, make them look very, like wax.
Shelby: They’re very hard.
*
Lila: I try to practice death awareness — but I think actually, most of the time, I act like I and the people I know are immortal. Really, in practice. You know like, not telling my people that I love them when we part. Not feeling like that’s necessary, you know. Because I assume that we have another time. To see each other. But that is not promised; that is not guaranteed, and we don’t know. And so I, would love to … would love to carry that. I’d love to carry that in such a way that has me loving the people around me… more.
*
Lila: Most people need ritual, in order to: make sense. You know, not just give up. Not just be like Well what the— I mean fuck! We’re all fucked! To not go into total nihilism.
*
Genevieve: Brits: They find everything awkward, generally. So, maybe our banter and humor comes from, finding a way to talk about subjects without actually talking about them. We’ve mastered that technique.
Shelby: I think I really appreciate British sense of humor; I like a lot of British media, because they do joke about things that are really dark, and I’m like, Listen, whatever your avenue in, that’s cool, and this is funny.
Lila: And we like to laugh.
Genevieve: It’s quite a different sense of humor, but um, that is the way we almost talk to one another.
[…]
Lila: Do you think, if everything is so awkward for Brits, there’s actually a great tolerance for awkwardness? A higher tolerance?
Genevieve: I think we revel in it. We just revel in the awkwardness of everything.
*
Shelby: I think the internet provides a safe haven for a lot of adolescents who feel like they don’t have an acceptable community in their real life. I know tons of people who like, made internet friends, and suddenly felt like they had someone around the world who was an anchor for them, who provided them with some semblance of similarity. […] I have a lot of friends who are queer, who are trans, who didn’t have that at home, and I think that— I think that we tend to discount internet relationships as not real, and I actually think that the internet can be a really phenomenal tool of connection if it is used that way.
Lila: I definitely don’t discount that, particularly for people in, let’s say, not in cities, who are in need of community, and people who have the preferences that they have, or look more like them, and are able to then reach out globally— nationally and globally. I think that is, that is quite incredible.
Shelby: That’s certainly also how people fall into like, bad communities, but, you know.
Lila: Tools.
*
Lila: Do you want to be a Mom?
Shelby: No.
Lila: Interesting. I really see you very um—
Shelby: I love kids.
Lila: — militaristically raising your children. (giggles)
Shelby: (overlapping) I spend a lot of time with kids, but I don’t want my own.
Lila: I don’t want kids either.
Genevieve: Neither do I.
Lila: No?
Genevieve: No. Never did.
Lila: Me neither! I’m very refreshed whenever I hear women in my cohort saying that, you know, because there’s so much: Are you sure? May— you just haven’t met the right man yet. It’ll probably change. You know, oh, your biological clock isn’t ticking yet. I’m like, I’m thirty-six. And I have never felt— never looked at a child, not once, and thought, “Oh I wish that child were mine.” Never, eeeever. And I know that people who are in my life who really want children, they started thinking that when they were children. They really, really want that.
Lila: Have you had to defend that choice at all?
Genevieve: To my mother, yes, but nobody else. I think people know not to argue with me, generally.
Lila: Why is that?
Genevieve: ‘Cause I’ve always just done what I wanted to do. I’m not too— maybe I have had to defend myself, but I just don’t recall because it hasn’t been important; I’ve generally ignored people who try to tell me what I am, when only I know best about that.
*
Lila: I think a lot of people are concerned, if they have… a little burning romantic flame for a friend, that they will lose the friendship if they even speak it.
Shelby: Ooo, so true.
Lila: So how did you, how did you navigate coming into that first, we’re gonna get together but now it’s gonna be something different; now it’s gonna be a date.
Genevieve: So in a very typical British way, we got drunk, had sex, then pretended it didn’t happen. (everyone laughs) And then we could just pretend that we were still friends and it was nothing else. […] Until the next time we got drunk, of course, and then it happened again. […]
Lila: How many drinks did it take for you to be like, alright, let’s do this!
Genevieve: (immediately) Five.
[…]
Lila: So you get drunk. You have sex. You pretend it didn’t happen. You British again. You get drunk. (everyone laughs) You have sex. (overlapping) You pretend it doesn’t happen.
Shelby: (overlapping) You make it a verb. You British.
Lila: Yeah, you British again. And then what?
Genevieve: And then you find the perfect excuse to get married, like: he’s moved abroad, so now we have to. (everybody laughs) […]
Lila: Wait a minute. We’re talking two nights and marriage? Come on, what’s the, what’s the in-between?
Genevieve: Actually, you know what, it’s probably more like, six nights and marriage.
Lila: Wwwoww.
Genevieve: Yeah, we jumped pretty quick—
Shelby: But 15 years of friendship.
Lila: Yes, of course you have a—
Shelby: So like knowing each other really well.
Genevieve: Right. But the intercourse happened maybe only six times before… the actual nuptials.
Shelby: (underlapping) Yeah, that’s crazy.
Lila: (overlapping) And were you solid that you were like: This is good enough sex to marry.
Genevieve: It was the best I’d ever had.
Lila: Oh my God. I have such envy.
*
Lila: There is a very low tolerance — and even a real derision… thrown at— people who are bicurious… by folks who are certain.
Season 3 mostly consists of threesomes, and in this episode I lie down with the founder — as well as the New York City host — of Skirt Club, a private women’s club for the curious kind.
This is Genevieve.
Skirt Club is also the name of their sex party, an event designed exclusively for women to explore their bicuriosity. Many of these women are primarily in romantic and sexual relationships with men. Just as I was, when I attended the Rocker Chic-themed edition of Skirt Club a couple of months ago in a mansion-like loft in New York’s Financial District.
If your bunny ears perked immediately, darling, you can apply to be a member at skirtclub.co.uk
Genevieve LeJeune created the Skirt Club enterprise (they currently have parties all over Europe and the U.S.) to give women a space to explore their sexuality, without men present.
She felt her bisexuality was being exploited for her boyfriend’s amusement, and wanted a space away from the male gaze, curated specifically for female empowerment, freedom, and sensual exploration. She couldn’t find it anywhere. So she built it.
She is a fiercely independent businesswoman and adventurer, a world-traveler, a stigma-challenging, femme-presenting, entrepreneur of the unconventional. And she is also very, very beautiful.
Shelby Nicole is Genevieve’s friend (Genevieve said that she doesn’t work with anyone she wouldn’t want to be friends with, so she is living the maxim “do what you love with people you like”).
And this is Shelby.
Shelby is also Skirt Club’s New York City Event Manager and hostess. She greeted me with lingerie and a smile when I arrived in my sequins and leather.
Shelby is a creative of many kinds, an actor, a filmmaker, a writer, a model. She can be found in her sex kitten form, resplendent in lingerie on her Instagram @reclusemuse — but you’ll have to request to follow her, because she is Private.
Shelby is a challenging person, as in, she challenges every idea. You may find this conversation to be less vulnerable than my usual episodes, perhaps because I had just come from a funeral, but maybe also because I felt, in a way, a bit on guard.
This was interesting.
I usually curate conditions for myself to record under which I don’t feel defensive in any way. I don’t usually get horizontal with people I feel the need to verbally parry with — it makes it harder for me to share with you my special self, my soft underbelly. I did my best here, and I was honest about feeling challenged, which is ultimately the the powerful thing I ask of myself.
So in this episode you’ll see what happens when I feel the need to justify and defend my words — I get louder, I talk over them, and I do not cry.
Generally these days I try to live by Brene Brown’s mantra: “Don’t shrink, don’t puff up, just stand your sacred ground.”
But. I think I puffed up here.
“Before the recording, the funeral.” The Bathroom Portraits. Volna Restaurant, Coney Island. Brooklyn, New York. June 2019
Still, in this episode we talk about:
- Max’s death and the funeral
- magical thinking
- how Genevieve was taught nothing about sex growing up
- and Shelby learned through books left on her bed
- we talked about Shelby’s matter-of-fact-ness and my reaction to it
- British humor, awkwardness, and media (& sex!)
- the internet as a safe haven
- Shelby’s first period
- how none of us want children (and how refreshing that is for me!)
- the story of how Genevieve married a man when she never wanted to marry anyone
- having very little sex, personally, in a life that’s full of it
- marital bed death & re-sensitization
- the 4pm masturbation break
- a brief history of Shelby’s search for orgasm
- my deep envious crushes on girls
- the kind of women we’re attracted to
- distinguishing bisexual & pansexual
- recognizing if we are bisexual and/or biromantic
- and how Genevieve’s ex was repulsed by her interest in women.
In next week’s episode, which is available exclusively to patrons of the horizontal arts, we discuss first sexual experiences with women, my desire to voyeur at their Skirt Club party, and, to complete the trifecta of taboo topics, we also talk about: money. To listen to that episode, and for access to The Full Horizontal, which includes all the part twos of every conversation, become a $7+/month patron.
Until next time: May you have someone to love, something to do, and something to look forward to. In 3 days, I fly down to Orlando to attend my first podcast conference, so that is what I’m looking forward to!
And now, come lie down with us in the Financial District of New York, New York.
horizontal with Genevieve & Shelby in the Financial District. New York, NY
Links to Things:
The sexy Skirt Club website
Skirt Club’s upcoming events
Skirt Club’s sexy Instagram
Hellooooo Ladies of Skirt Club. Capture by Lena Di.
Shelby’s sexy Instagram, @reclusemuse
The Atlantic article about why kids are having less sex these days
The book Reclaiming Conversation, from which I learned that many children are not learning empathy by 8, the age that it is developmentally expected
Forever, by Judy Bloom, the book that first introduced 14 year-old Genevieve to the concept of sex
Dr. Holly Richmond, the guest speaker at the Skirt Club I attended, who spoke about how to undo a dependence on vibrators for orgasm
89. death, sex, & skirts: horizontal with the co-hosts of skirt club (1 of 2)
Season 3 mostly consists of threesomes, and in this episode I lie down with the founder – as well as the New York City host – of Skirt Club, a private women’s club for the curious kind. Skirt Club is also the name of their sex party, an event designed exclusively for women to explore their bicuriosity.
