This is Devin Person, my Wizard friend.
85. well-hung psychedelic sex wizard / no hookups: between two wizards (1 of 2)
Season 3 mostly consists of threesomes. Whereas in Season 1 and 2, I was lying down with a single guest at time, many of my Season 3 episodes will have me lying down with two people at a time – in this case, between two wizards. These humans are in some kind of relationship with one another.
Devin: The bad sex experiences that I’ve had, have always been when someone assumes that the way that they like things is universal, and expects you to know that immediately. Whereas I’m like, “Oh, I’m gonna touch you gently at first, and if, I keep getting signals, then I’ll move up and get harder, and then I’m like, Oh, you want me to literally like, grind my knuckles into your clit, okay, like, I get the signal! I’m not gonna start with that! And, the most baffling sexual experiences I’ve had have always been ones where, someone is like, mad that I’m not doing something— or that I’m doing something, that I’m like, Yeah, this is the first time we’re having sex, like, I’m moving slow, and experimenting. Some people really like to have their neck kissed; some people do not. I can ask you that, but, you’re not gonna give me a questionnaire at the beginning; I’m gonna figure this out, somewhat organically.
Lila: You’re like playing a video game and trying to see where things light up!
Devin: Or I’m like, I got through this level, and I got, eaten by that monster, and I know that I need to avoid that monster next time and then, I’ll do it! Because, you know, you might date one person who’s like, Oh my God, if you’re gonna go down on me, you need to stick a finger in my butt. The next person that you go down on—
Lila: Is like, “No.”
Devin: Is not like— I’m like, This worked last time!
Lila: I’ve really often experienced that after— when I’ve had sex with someone who has been recently out of a long-term relationship, I get the sense that they are fucking, just, the way that (overlapping) that person, fucked.
Devin: (overlapping) That they were taught.
Lila: And: I am new person! But they are on programming! And, and thinking that they’re gonna get the same reaction, and, that rarely happens, because people are alchemical together, and it’s something different, when you put that equation together, when you put those chemical substances together.
Devin: Totally! And it’s the joy of finding that together! […]
Lila: I am really kind of taken aback to hear that you’ve been essentially reprimanded for going slow and experimenting with a new lover.
Devin: […] I like way more meditative, exploratory sex. I’m not the jackhammer type.
***
Kevin: I feel like, the earliest memories of porn you have tend to get lodged in your brain, especially […] if you come while watching a certain type of porn, that scene, kinda gets like, burned in your brain. […] Thinking just how much I saw porn at a young age — I put it together later on that: I like to watch. I like to watch people. And finding ways to work that into— even with just, one other partner, to be like, Why don’t you masturbate? I wanna watch you. Or let’s just do it together, side by side, and watch each other. That’s super hot to me.
***
Kevin: I don’t believe that porn is the problem. And I don’t think that it’s even necessarily an addiction problem. I think it’s, it’s a shame problem. And it’s a ‘how you talk to yourself about sex’ problem.
***
Kevin: “I’m gonna give you this book. It’s called Ethical Porn for Dicks.” […] It’s kind of a silly book, but it was really helpful to unravel that myth that I’d been telling myself, that It Was Porn’s Fault, that I was, quote unquote “bad at sex.” Because, my partner had been telling me I was bad at sex. And then I was like, Oh shit, it’s ‘cause of the porn, isn’t it! And then it was just, it made me feel worse about myself. And then I’m like, Well it’s not the porn’s fault. It’s actually more my partner’s fault for telling me a lot of negative stories, that I believed about myself. That she made me believe.
Lila: Like what?
Kevin: One: that porn was the problem. That I’d been like, basically cheating on her with porn. That I was a misogynist and sexist because … I came too early, and I never focused on her pleasure — even though she never really told me what she wanted, and was like, a terrible communicator about all those things, in the moment. And would say really judgey, shame-y things to me, AS we’re trying to have sex! Which— I don’t even know how many fights we wound up having, as we were trying to initiate sex. Biiig fights. And it’s just like, that kills!
Lila: That’s the opposite of eroticism!
Kevin: It’s absolutely the worst, and it just made me feel, like not wanting to have sex with anybody. Let alone her. Let alone, vagina-havers, period! I was like, Maybe I just wanna have sex with dicks! Like, fuck this! […] And I just stopped having sex, because I was like, What if we get into a fight? I don’t wanna do that! Hello no! And so, my sex life just shriveled up. And I put all of this energy into porn, which I felt bad about, and I was like, Ugggh. I gotta deal with this.
Season 3 mostly consists of threesomes. Whereas in Season 1 and 2, I was lying down with a single guest at time, many of my Season 3 episodes will have me lying down with two people at a time — in this case, between two wizards. Like so:
horizontal between two Wizards in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. May 2019
The humans featured in (most of) Season 3 are in some kind of relationship with one another. Thus far, I’ve had a manager and his/her trauma specialist client, co-hosts of a sexuality conversation series called the Discerning Dick, primary poly kinky romantic partners, and now, Wizard friends and esoteric collaborators.
In this episode, I lie down with Devin & Kevin. I’ve known about Devin for years. My former housemate Tiger, who you heard from in Season One, used to say, “My Wizard friend,” quite regularly in casual conversation. But it wasn’t until Lola Jean’s Kinky Carnival when we became properly acquainted and made a podcast pact. He fulfilled his part of the pact months ago.
My episode of his series This Podcast is a Ritual is called “How To Take Life Lying Down,” and in it, we talked at a moderate incline, about the origin of my horizontal curiosity, couples therapy, reflective listening, and my working definition of intimacy. Then I made a call for closing rituals, to end romantic relationships.
I also cast you a Spell.
I am truly delighted by my blossoming friendship with Devin. He is impossibly quick-witted and fantastically charismatic, adventurous in spirit, and eternally playful. I get the sense that he could communicate with anybody, anywhere, for any amount of time. His long white-blond beard never fails to make me smile, and I am excited for our friendship to grow, because he’s one of the humans that I wish to bring my conundrums to, just to see what his brain will do with them.
He’s something like your most compassionate therapist, if your therapist were a young handsome Dumbledore proficient in computers who studied improv at Second City for 7 years. If you listen to his podcast, or participate in any of his events, like the Wizarding Hour (a collaboration with Kevin) or the Wizard Walkabout, in which 50 of us took ceremonial gummy bears and went gallivanting about Central Park on 4/20, guided by the Wizard in Person, as well as the Wizard in our Ears — you’ll know that Devin has a thing for numbers.
Not for nothin’, I also took part in a Sex Magick ritual for his podcast, on 6/9, from 6 to 9pm, with between 6 and 9 people.
His fiancee, L.A. Marks, had me on her poetry podcast, A Daily Dose of Poetry, and last week, told a tale of bisexual discovery at my horizontal storytelling: the summer pride edition.
On their mailbox is written: The Poet and The Wizard… (Can you imagine the Glory of Such a Wedding?!)
horizontal with L.A. Marks at horizontal storytelling: the summer pride edition. Image by Loz Photography. June 2019
Kevin is a musician, a Senior UX Designer, and one of Devin’s dear friends. Their friendship has mostly taken place in the ether, in the form of Wizard emails, the record of which form a virtual diary, a correspondence that marks the living of our lives — in much the way, perhaps, that our grandparents wrote to their cousins.
This is Kevin. Mysterious, eh?
Kevin was formerly the proprietor of Tarot Society, which was a center for the curious to gather in Bushwick and muse about things hidden and obscure. Devin & Kevin used to host a summer series there called New Age & Chill.
I never dropped by when Tarot Society was in existence, so I will have to entice Kevin to give me a reading at a pop-up or a party… His mischievous eyes and delight in getting away with things make me quite curious about the Wizardry of his Tarot.
The day of this recording was the first time I met Kevin, and, since he is a private person by nature, I am grateful that he chose to share, in the service of friendship and intimacy in this way, in this medium, with all of us. Thank you, Kevin.
In this episode, the first half of our conversation, we talk about the origin of the White Collar Wizard emails, middle-school boys and cock-shaming, Devin’s first acid trip, in 8th grade, the grand Bohemia of Olympia, Washington, learning that you aren’t “supposed to” cum too fast if you have a penis, sleep-sexing, learning about sex by asking a sexual partner, “What is your other sex like?”, Devin’s Wizard Tinder profile, 80s Penthouse, imprinting on your first porn, Kevin’s therapist, Ethical Porn for Dicks, shame-y, judgmental sex, and how some fantasies should just remain fantasies.
In the next episode, 86, the second half of our conversation, Devin and Kevin actually read us some of their private Wizard emails, we discuss what it means to be a present-day Tarot Dealer and a modern Wizard, and Devin tells us the truly incredible — as in, if you saw it in a movie you’d say, “That never happens in real life!” — and the incredibly true tale of how his hair turned Wizard White.
To listen to that episode, and for access to The Full Horizontal, which includes all the part twos plus a monthly video containing a pearl of Intimacy Wisdom, become a patron of the horizontal arts! Patreon is the love child of crowd-funding and a subscription service. Find me there!
In next week’s episode, we will be treated to the story of how Devin became a Wizard, and get to hear Devin & Kevin read some of the most pivotal Wizard Emails of their friendship.
And now, come lie down… between two Wizards.
horizontal with Devin & Kevin in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. May 2019
Links to Things:
Person Is Awake, Devin’s website
This Podcast Is A Ritual, Devin’s podcast
“How to Take Life Lying Down,” my episode of Devin’s podcast
“How to Read Tarot,” Kevin’s episode of Devin’s podcast
The Wizard Walkabout, Devin’s Wizard tour
The Wizarding Hour, Devin & Kevin’s new collaboration!
Kevin’s UX Designer website
To get a Tarot reading with Kevin, go here
Ethical Porn for Dicks, a book that helped Kevin re-conceptualize his relationship with porn!
The horizontal episode I reference when talking to Kevin about the concept of sex addiction: 76. the discerning dick: horizontal with dudes who talk to other dudes about sexuality
How to Find a sex-positive, pro-porn, kink-aware, poly-friendly sex therapist
85. well-hung psychedelic sex wizard / no hookups: between two wizards (1 of 2)
Season 3 mostly consists of threesomes. Whereas in Season 1 and 2, I was lying down with a single guest at time, many of my Season 3 episodes will have me lying down with two people at a time – in this case, between two wizards. These humans are in some kind of relationship with one another.
