This is Samia Mounts. She gave me a bunch of her clothes when she moved to Korea. I’m so lucky!
To listen to this exclusive episode, become a patron of the horizontal arts!
Lila: I also notice how we both, in this conversation have said, “I didn’t move there for him; I’m not going there for him.”
Samia: I know; it’s really important.
Lila: And, and, that shows how — probably also your core value — my core value is autonomy.
Samia: Yeah! Mine too!
Lila: And probably yours is as well, that’s what I was, yeah—
Samia: Absolutely.
Lila: So—
Samia: Autonomy for myself and autonomy for others— which is exactly why I think monogamy doesn’t make sense.
Lila: And, y’know, (laughs lightly) I don’t think I would actually want this, but in this, this dream world, I’m as slutty as I wanna be, or— oh, I don’t even like to use that word. I don’t like the word—
Samia: I love the word slutty.
Lila: I don’t like the word at all.
Samia: I’ve reclaimed it.
Lila: I’m — in the dream world — I’m loving as many people as I want, and, my partner is, not. My partner is happily monogamous. (Lila laughs loudly) With me.
Samia: That’s the double standard that I hear from a lot of women. (Lila’s still laughing) I hear this from so many women. Women, who are in monogamous relationships say this. Like, I just wanna be able to do what I wanna do, but I want him to stay faithful to me. And I really think this is born of c— some cultural programming that’s hard to shake. Because there is a foundational myth in our culture, that you can only love one person at a time. And that romantic love, unlike every other kind of love, for some reason, is somehow finite. It, it’s not actually the way things work, but this myth is strong in our cultural programming. So, it makes us feel devalued when somebody we love, loves someone else or fucks somebody else. But there’s no reason that it should. In the same way it shouldn’t devalue us that a friend of ours has other friends. Or that, we have more than one kid. Or more than one sibling. Or cousin. Or coworker. Literally. It’s just another human relationship. It’s special, ‘cause sex is a special thing, but—
Lila: You’re saying it in this hyper-logical way that is as though a person who you have a romantic and sexual relationship with, having a romantic and sexual relationship with somebody else, doesn’t affect yours in the slightest, and it does! Of course it does! It gives you far more variables to deal with—
Samia: I don’t think so, when you look at how many monogamous relationships end because somebody cheated. You’re always dealing with unexpected variables; there’s no certainty in life. You can’t expect a single love affair to last forever, ‘cause none of them will. You have to be used to change. You have to be unafraid of relationships transitioning to something else. Or ending.
Lila: You don’t have to be unafraid of that.
Samia: Yeah, y’do!
Lila: Plenty of people can be afraid of it and, you know, live full lives—
Samia: (overlapping) Well, if you’re gonna be afraid of it then at least still have the relationships, you know what I mean? Like don’t be so afraid that it paralyzes you, from having the relationships in the first place, those connections— I mean, I think we shortchange ourselves by, by devaluing relationships that aren’t long-term and exclusive. I think, a true friend with benefits is just as valuable a relationship as an epic love affair. Or a, or a 50-year marriage.
friends with benefits = the common parlance for friends who have sex with each other, but aren’t engaged in a romantic relationship.
Lila: You just cannot say that, a partner, of yours, being in n—- NRE, New Relationship Energy, with a new love and and having that, incredible passion, doesn’t affect your relationship. Of course it does!
NRE (abbreviation) = New Relationship Energy, also known as: infatuation.
Samia: But usually, that affects your relationship in a positive way.
Lila: It may, but, perhaps not if you’re a dispositionally-jealous person, like I am! (Samia laughs)
Samia: But, but you—
Lila: Honestly!
Samia: But you gotta look at how you frame jealousy. You know. If you’re making jealousy part of your identity, and it’s something you—
Lila: I’m not making it, it just— is there.
Samia: It’s just a feeling.
Lila: If it wasn’t… something that I feel often, then it wouldn’t be!
Samia: But it’s just a feeling, and feelings can be worked out, feelings can be worked through. If you frame — this is how I deal with jealousy.
Lila: This is scienti— a scientific perspective! This is from Dr. Zhana. There are dispositionally jealous people and there are situationally jealous people.
dispositional jealousy (noun) = jealousy ingrained in the personality as a character trait.
situational jealousy (noun) = jealousy aroused due to an incident or a circumstance.
Samia: Okay, all right, I, can agree with that. But I still say that if you look at the roots of your jealousy, and frame your jealousy as your own problem and noone else’s, and a problem that you can solve, then suddenly you have power and agency in dealing with that jealousy.
Lila: But I don’t buy that, because, (Samia laughs) because, I think my jealousy comes from what I am not getting that I desire— my desires are not going away. My desires are not changing. They will change over time.
Samia: Yeah.
Lila: Right, naturally.
Samia: You gotta meet your desires.
Lila: My desires not just gonna— I’m not just gonna be like, “I don’t want that anymore. Suddenly, I don’t want to feel cherished!” You know, that’s just gonna change— no, it’s not, I’m not—
Samia: But the right partner for you—
Lila: — adjusting that.
Samia: — will have no problem making you feel cherished.
Lila: And that is the thing! That is the thing! The r— I think the root of my jealousy is having nnnot had the experience of feeling cherished in a relationship, and getting what I, wanted, and feeling sexually satisfied— I’ve never had that. Ever.
Samia: So in that case you could even look at your jealousy as a signal that the current person you’re focused on, isn’t cherishing you. Instead of looking at it as this uh, you know, this part of your identity that makes it impossible for you to have nonmonogamous relationships; you could look at it as a red flag warning sign that your intuitive body is telling you about this person.
Lila: I do think that’s true, but that also means that nobody I’ve ever, been involved with, has ever, cherished me in the way that I want to be cherished.
Samia: That makes me so sad because you are so worthy of being cherished and I cherish you… You do deserve that. And you shouldn’t settle for less than that. You’re fuckin’ incredible.
Hello my dear patrons! Welcome back to your podcast of reclining intimacies. (Not a patron yet? Become one here!)
Oh my, Samia. Oh my.
This exclusive episode contains the second part of my conversation with Samia Mounts: singer, actress, voice-over artist, creator of music, bisexual babe, political podcaster, nonmonogamy advocate, and creator of the forthcoming podcast Future Love.
In the first half of our conversation together, released as episode 59. I’m gonna fuck him forEVER: horizontal with a polyamorous podcaster of political proportions, we talked about growing up as a horny little beast on a military base, playing lumberjack, dry-humping girls at 8, coming out as bi at 14, the year of the purge, a play I was in called An American Family Takes a Lover, the seminal book Sex at Dawn, my new fashion friend, ordering food while fucking, Samia’s night with “Wild Man,” being multi-orgasmic, and cultivating lifelong sexy relationships.
Towards the end of that episode, I told Samia part of the story of my recent abortion.
[Just so you know, I told the whole story during the second half of my recording session with Bevin a few weeks ago in L.A. That episode will be released in two weeks-ish. A week or three from now.]
[Update: Two weeks from now.]
In this part of our conversation, we discuss Samia’s big cosmic love affair with The Writer, wildfire fucking, dispositional and situational jealousy, NRE, the relationship escalator, pegging, not feeling seen by my lover, how to release expectations, and Samia’s epic friendship with the person who is her person.
I’ve had the winter blues lately, but just knowing that you are out there, listening, ruminating, reclining, and supporting my expression in this world heartens me immensely. Thank you for being a metaphorical cup of hot cider.
Also, someone just sent me a photo yesterday, white graffiti on a brick background. It says, “I’m not sad; I’m just feeling very human today.”
So, dear human, Come lie down with us in Bushwick, Brooklyn.
Cozily horizontal with Samia Mounts in my bed in Bushwick, Brooklyn. November 2018
Links to Things:
Become a Patron! to listen to this episode!
The first part of this conversation: 59. i’m gonna fuck him forEVER: horizontal with a polyamorous podcaster of political proportions
The State of Affairs, Esther Perel’s newest book, all about infidelity
Untrue, Wednesday Martin’s newest book, which aims to bust myths about female sexuality
Testosterone Rex, a book that Samia enthusiastically recommends, which busts myths about “sex, science, and society”
Advanced Style, the documentary about incredibly stylish older folks that Lila looooves (as well as the Instagram account). P.S. Ari Seth Cohen also has a new book coming out (in a few days!) about fashionable older couples called Advanced Love!
Shaun from The Love Drive, my most recent podcast guest prior to Samia. His episodes are: 57. fear of intimacy and 58. the love drive.
The Relationship Escalator & Solo Polyamory, the episode of the The Multiamory Podcast, a podcast (about loving more than one human) that Samia refers to in this episode (relationship escalator has been added to the glossary forthwith)
Show Notes (feel free to share quotes/resources on social media, and please link to this website or my Patreon!):
website link: https://horizontalwithlila.com/
Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/horizontalwithlila
[3:29] Samia tells the story of her big cosmic love affair with “The Writer.”
[7:56]
Samia: I just wanted to fuck him, but I didn’t expect it to be this fire, like a fucking wildfire, it was intense.
[9:26]
Samia: When we fuck, it’s like: that whole cliché of I don’t know where I end and you begin — it feels real; it feels like we’re one body and one soul, and it’s— I see God and life is worth living, and— I know that sounds like clichés, but that’s really how it feels. When I’m with him, it feels like life is worth living.
[12:14]
Samia: It was like, all still there except more… more, and and we would just fuck for hours, like— and it was that thing I talked about at the beginning of the episode, where you don’t even have to think— the person turns you on so much, you’re so overwhelmed by them that you, you can’t help but stay present in the moment and everything feels so good. Everything is perfect. He’s shaped perfectly for me; it’s like our bodies were made for each other. (Lila sighs longingly) Like, like you couldn’t have molded a better dick for my pussy. (Lila mmhms) And, he knows exactly how to love me, and it’s like dis— it’s vocal and, we laugh and we connect and we grunt like beasts and we also make jokes and, we do all the positions, and we do all of the oral and we— do— like just whatever occurs to us, and it’s so natural and easy, every single, fucking time!
[15:37] Lila & Samia on autonomy.
[21:46] Lila’s Burning Man campmate, and her take on settling.
Lila: When people tell you not to settle for less than what you deserve, it’s like—
Samia: (underlapping) But I gotta get laid!
Lila: (overlapping) Okay, so you, yeah—
Lila: So you want me to be a monk? So you want me to be— and, and that’s actually, the conversation that I had on the way out of Burning Man. I got a ride with this beautiful couple in their 40s. And she was telling me the story of how they got together, and he was with another woman, and, and she had— when she was looking for a man, she, she had talked to him once, ‘cause they became friends, and she said, “I need someone who can, you know, go to Burning Man and get dusty, and then get cleaned up and go to a gala with me (Samia mm’s) and he was like, “Well, you’re fucked, ‘cause the only person I know who’s like that is me.” (both laugh) And he wasn’t available. And, then, you know, some time went by, and there was a, a window in which he was available, and she had decided on total celibacy.
Samia: Wow.
Lila: For, and is was the fourth year (Samia gasps) of her celibacy, and, she’s like, “If it’s not gonna be what I deserve, then I don’t fuckin’ want it. And I’m not gonna tell the universe that I will accept anything less than what I truly want, so I’m holding out. And she held out, and she hit the jackpot and she got the partner that she— really wanted, and they have a life together.
Samia: That’s lovely.
Lila: And she was kind of advising me to do the same, like, not accept, you know, having… a lover who I know is, is not, not gonna be it for me, and I’m like, “But the sex!” and she’s like, “Yeah but, do you wanna be telling the universe that that is what you will accept?” And I’m like, “Agguuuuuuuuuhhh!”
Samia: I can, I can see that angle and I can see how that would be effective and maybe that’s a thing that will be useful for you. I come at it from a different angle because I really need to have sex to feel okay. (laughs) Physically.
Lila: I feel so much better; I’m such a much less grumpy person.
Samia: Yesss.
Lila: My housemates know—
Samia: Exactly.
Lila: My housemates are happy when I get laid because I’m much nicer!
Samia: So much nicer. So much happier. Life feels better.
Lila: Fuck!
Samia: It’s, it’s better.
Lila: And I’ve never, and I think I’ve told you this— I have never, ever had as much sex and I wanted.
Samia: Ugh.
Lila: I have so much trouble even finding somebody that I wanna have sex with—
Samia: (under her breath) Why is it so hard?
Lila: — who wants to have sex with me.
Samia: Yeah.
Lila: At the same time—
Samia: Yeah.
Lila: — who is at liberty to have sex with me.
Samia: Yup.
Lila: Once a week, even! I mean it’s just like—
Samia: Thank you!
Lila: It is s—
Samia: Once a week!
Lila: I don’t understand!
Samia: That’s it!
Lila: Why it is so challenging. My druthers, if I had my druthers, I would: (giggles)
Samia: I love it when people say that, aw it’s so good.
Lila: I would get laid— passionately, delightfully, lovingly… every other day.
Samia: Yeah.
Lila: Three to four times a week. That, that is like, a— the dream for me. But I have trouble even making it happen once a week. I had a lover who lived five blocks down the road. Five! Five blocks!
Samia: That’s very convenient.
Lila: And I could not get him to fuck me once a week.
[25:05] The dating pool in Samia’s part of Korea.
Samia: I, I struggle with this too— I’ve been struggling with this all year in Korea, it’s a very, small dating pool and it’s not a super high-quality dating pool and I’ve gone through a lot of the eligible bachelors and I’ve found them to be lacking. (Lila guffaws) Um, I finally found this guy that I think I can fuck once a week who is gonna be easy and drama-free and super great — and he’s really hot, and so I’m excited about that. Not having sex is not an option for me. So what I’ve decided to do instead— my angle for how to deal with these issues that you’re talking about, about not wanting to tell the universe that you’re willing to settle for less, is: assess each person with the information they’re giving me, cut them out if they become a problem, keep them if they’re not a problem, but continually, if I don’t have anyone I’m fucking, I will seek out somebody to fuck. Annnd, sometimes there are people that I know aren’t ideal, and so, I decide I’m gonna have this consexual sexual experience with them—
Lila: Consexual, that’s cute.
Samia: Consensual, that’s what I meant.
Lila: I like that.
consexual experience = a portmanteau word combining “consensual” and “sexual” — a consensual sexual experience. [Samia’s word, accidentally]
Samia: Consexual!
Lila: (overlapping) No, but consexual, I haven’t heard that, and I like it.
Samia: (overlapping) I will have this, consexual experience with them, because I need to get laid, and it will be good for, them I’m sure, and it, you know, it’ll be, reasonable for me (Lila laughs) uhm, but at least I’ll have gotten laid, and I really—
Lila: Get that.
Samia: — like getting laid. So, for me it’s more of like, it almost becomes a, a pragmatic thing, when it comes to that, but like I said, I went a month without having sex ‘cause there just wasn’t anybody, and I’m not gonna go out and fuck some rando. I need a spark. You know?
Lila: Yes.
Samia: I need some kind of a connection.
Lila: I do know.
Samia: It has to be that way, so— but, I will seek out those connections, I will try to find them. If I don’t have one going on, until I have a once-a-week sex situation going on! And, it doesn’t have to be one person once a week… If I had four different people that I saw each once a month, that would be fantastic too! (Lila giggles) I’m great with that! And basically what I’ve been doing is I’ve just been, you know, every time I come to North America, to L.A. or New York, I have lovers in both of those cities, so I’ve been getting a lot of sex in on my trips.
Lila: That’s nice.
Samia: And also when I’m in Seoul, I’m very busy, and I really don’t have much time. So it’s been difficult. It was good when me and the writer were still fucking, because, it had to be secret, so automatically it fit into shorter time slots. We would schedule 3 hours, like for him to come over and we’d just fuck the whole time and then, you know—
Lila: Bye.
Samia: Yeah! So that was really really great when that was happening, but when that dried up, you know, I had to find something else. I think this, this new guy is gonna be good. He’s fantastic; he’s so nice, he laughs at all my jokes and he’s really sexy. He’s just easy to hang out with, which I love. And he lives, like, not really in Seoul, so it’s kind of a pain in the ass to get to each other— which is good. (Samia laughs heartily) ‘Cause then there’s no temptation to try to see each other more than once a week, which I, I don’t want to.
[27:58] Where is Lila at this moment on the polyamory to monogamy continuum?
A nonmonogamy map. Courtesy of Franklin Veaux, co-author of More Than Two.
[28:56]
Lila: What I was saying about Tinder and okcupid is: as I’m swiping, when I see that somebody has put “monogamous,” that doesn’t feel good—
Samia: MMm!
Lila: And when I see that someone has put “polyamorous,” that doesn’t feel good either.
Samia: Mmm.
Lila: I think what I want is somebody who is actually open. Which, to me, means, open to different configurations based on who they love… and change…
Samia: Yeah.
Lila: And morphing. Shaun, from the L—
Samia: You’re speaking my language right now, just so you know—
Lila: Shaun, from The Love Drive, likes to say, that he wants someone who’s open to being open.
[Note: Shaun was my most recent podcast guest prior to Samia. His episodes are: 57. fear of intimacy and 58. the love drive.]
Samia: Yeah.
Lila: And I also want someone who’s open to being open. I also want someone who, is, interested in establishing some kind of foundation of trust and—
Samia: Yeah.
Lila: — a feeling of safety, even though I know, nothing is ever safe, I understand that.
Samia: (underlapping) But it’s not that h—
Lila: (overlapping) But a feeling of, a feeling of connection, and—
Samia: Yeah!
Lila: And—
Samia: It’s not that hard to make somebody feel valued. It’s really not that difficult.
Lila: Yes, although, apparently, so many people have a problem with it— you need to open a school and teach them. That it’s not that hard to make people feel valued.
Samia: I think, it’s what you were talking about with that guy Peter! I was listening to The Multiamory Podcast, and it was an episode with this woman who wrote a book, where she talks about the relationship escalator. You know, what he said, like, “The way we were going it was gonna end up becoming this.”
[Note: It was this episode here: The Relationship Escalator & Solo Polyamory.]
Lila: Yes.
Samia: That’s the relationship escalator. Where, you know, exclusive, and then you move in, and then, you marry, and then, you know, whatever— it’s a fucking escalator.
relationship escalator (noun) = a perceived requirement that a romantic relationship must continue to “ascend” steadily towards marriage. Beginning with flirting, then proceeding to dating, exclusive dating, moving in together, engagement, marriage, and children.
Lila: For him, because he is not interested. He does not want polyamory. He does not want an open relationship.
Samia: And so he cut off a beautiful connection, because of this i— dea of what a relationship should look like.
Lila: Yes, it’s heartbreaking.
Samia: It’s, it’s—
Lila: My heart is still breaking over it.
Samia: It’s, it’s, a fucking waste. It’s a waste.
Lila: And I’ve loved him for so long. I’ve loved him since college.
Samia: I hope he comes around. I hope he figures this out and realizes there’s no reason to cut off a beautiful loving, romantic relationship, just because you’re not gonna get on the relationship escalator.
Lila: I don’t know, it’s— and it’s so beautiful! It’s so— the connection is so beautiful and so sweet and— I was so excited. I was so excited because— I was like, Do I finally get to have this? I’m wildly sexually attracted to somebody who I love and who is— a wonderful human being. I’m finally sexually-aroused by a nice, kind man! Oh my God, do I actually get to have this now? You know, I was so. . . . .
Samia: Mph. I know that feeling. I spent many many years feeling like nobody was ever gonna love me the way I— wanted to be loved. So many years.
Lila: So I really don’t think it has to be monogamy for me. And I think actually monogamy, would make me feel trapped, and I think, Yes, I have been choosing men who are partially unavailable, so that, I don’t have to defend my autonomy against anyone, I don’t have to— and also, you know, truth be told, I don’t have to put up strong boundaries ‘cause strong boundaries are already in place by the fact that, they live across the country, they live in another country, they […] are heartbroken— there’s already boundaries. […] And that’s on me, to learn to get more… expressive and staunch with my boundaries.
Samia: Yeah!
Lila: And protect my alone-time and protect my autonomy, and—
[32:38] How long can Lila imagine being monogamous?
Lila: Yes, the thought of monogamy— I think there’s a point at which it starts to… one year? Sounds like, I could do that.
Samia: Yeah. One year is easy. When you’re really in love with somebody it’s easy.
Lila: Two years?
Samia: You could even do two years.
Lila: I’ve— I could do.
Samia: Yeah.
Lila: I think it’s when I’m starting to think beyond two years.
Samia: Yup. (laughs)
Lila: And you know, that dovetails perfectly with the science. […] Because the science says that between six weeks and two years— is that, that infatuation period. That New Relationship Energy period. [,,,] And so, I’m thinking beyond that, and thinking, “Oh, well then, monogamy after that sounds constrictive and, like it would chafe and and, like it wouldn’t be in alignment with my desires—
Samia: Exactly.
Lila: And so, I have that in my brain, and I also have great curiosity about, about swinging— with a couple that I’m really attracted to—
Samia: Yeahhh.
Lila: About threesomes, I just had my very very first, beginning of a Male / Male / Female—
Samia: (squealing) Oooooohh!
Lila: — threesome and it was so delicious—
Lila: and so exciting. Samia: I want one so bad!
Samia: I haven’t had one yet; I want it! Oh that’s lovely!
Lila: Mmmmm, I want more! I’m trying to—
Samia: (squealing) Yesss!
Lila: I’m trying to m— I’m like, “When are you two gonna be in New York?” I’m like, How can I make this happen, ‘cause it was so delicious.
MMF (abbreviation) = short for a Male / Male / Female threesome.
[34:28] Samia on lifelong sexy relationships.
Samia: So part of my strategy with the way I, I’m so open to these long-distance relationships where I only get to see them once in a while, is by doing it that way, you can actually stretch out—
Lila: Oh yeah, the two years time adds up to 10 or 20, right?
Samia: It, it can last a lifetime. I really think that the, this works, ‘cause I have enough of these long-distance relationships at this point— and every time I see them it’s still such a rush.
Lila: And what’s the longest one? So what’s your data point?
Samia: (overlapping) I mean, the longest one is, The Writer, at, you know, we’re going on 10 years.
Lila: Yeah.
Samia: And I—
Lila: That’s pretty good data. (giggles)
Samia: And I do see that relationship lasting my lifetime; I don’t think he and I will ever stop being in love with each other. I think that we’ll always— it’ll always be difficult. And I think that the difficulties—
Lila: Well it’s probably making it hotter, too.
Samia: I think the difficulties make it hotter, and I think it’s part of the beauty of our relationship, is that when we disconnect, we disconnect so completely, that when we come back together, every single time, it feels like a cosmic revelation.
Lila: This homecoming!
Samia: It’s amazing.
Lila: This climax of a movie.
Samia: And I never wanna lose that feeling, so if I have to deal with the— yearning, in between, to earn that moment of bliss, I’m willing to do that—
Lila: It’s worth it, for you.
Samia: It is. The yearning is also beautiful. The yearning leads to some of my best solo orgasms, A.
Lila: HaHA.
Samia: B. Yearning, and heartache, lead to some of my best artistic output. (Lila mmhms) And, they also give me an appreciation for the happiest moments in life, and for the good things in life, and they force me to remember to be grateful even when I’m heartsick. It makes you a fuller person to go through heartache and pain. And if you frame it that way, it’s a lot easier to go through it ‘cause you see that there’s value in it.
Lila: And it contains within it — the heartache contains within it — the fact that your heart was full. At one point.
Samia: Yesss. Yes! And when your heart becomes full again, it’s such a beautiful remembering of who you are. You know, and what life is really all about.
[36:33] Lila on seeing Peter again after so many years, and breathing him in. And his t-shirt.
[37:49] Does The Writer’s wife know at this point?
[37:59] Lila recommends that Samia read The State of Affairs, Esther Perel’s new book, all about infidelity.
[38:19]
Lila: You have to read this book. Because she’s, she is unraveling some of the complexities of affairs— what they do for the people who have them, how people come together afterwards. She says, you know, to her clients, who have had affairs and had this huuuge, you know, blow up, “Your first marriage is over. Would you like to have another one together?”
[38:56] Lila also recommends Untrue, Wednesday Martin’s new book, busting myths about female sexuality.
[39:44] Samia recommends Testosterone Rex as a book that changed her life by giving her the data to back up what she already felt was true.
[40:27]
Samia: When you put women in a context where it’s culturally and socially acceptable for them to be risk-taking and promiscuous, they do it. In the exact same numbers as men.
[40:46] Lila brings up the Trans men who start taking testosterone and their sex drive skyrockets.
[41:02] In the debate of nature vs. nurture, Lila is quite adamant that it’s not either / or, but both / and. Why does Samia think that people try to diminish the cultural component (or the nurture part)?
[41:38]
Samia: It’s so silly, I’m, I’m really sick of, of this idea that women don’t want sex as much as men— I haven’t been in a relationship yet where the man wanted sex as much as I did. Not one. Not a single fuckin’ one. (laughs)
[42:00] Samia and I on being 35 and 36.
[43:57] Lila absolutely croons about the ladies of Advanced Style, the documentary about incredibly stylish older folks (as well as the Instagram account).
[P.S. Ari Seth Cohen also has a new book coming out (in a few days!) about fashionable older couples called Advanced Love!]
Lila: on her way to Advanced Style. NOLA. October 2018
[46:26] Samia will never change a diaper. What about when her parents need that kind of care?
[47:34] Samia on pegging.
Samia: Actually, you know what? Truth be told. I have dealt with human excrement. Just not a baby’s. (laughs lightly) But I used to peg my ex-boyfriend. (both laugh) And there was, and there was, sometimes, excrement involved in the clean-up of that process.
Lila: Okay.
Samia: And I dealt with that. And I loved him, […] so, I guess I could change a diaper if I really wanted to, but I don’t. Don’t wanna change a diaper.
pegging (verb) = anal penetration of a person (typically a penis-owner) by another person (typically not a penis-owner) utilizing a strap-on — which consists of a dildo and a harness which is “strapped-on” to the pelvis, and worn in a similar fashion to underwear.
strap-on (noun) = a sex toy consisting of a dildo and a harness which is “strapped-on” to the pelvis, and worn in a similar fashion to underwear. Often thought of as a tool for lesbian sex, to vaginally-penetrate a partner with a penis-shaped object when there is no penis involved, a strap-on can be used in various scenarios: to double the penises that one penis-owner has, in service of DP (double penetration), to enhance the girth of an existing penis, to involve an erect penis-like object if the present penis is not erect, and for pegging.
[47:58] Samia schools Lila on pegging.
Lila: I have, never pegged anyone.
Samia: Really?
Lila: Tell me about it.
Samia: Oh! Okay so, it’s really fun. It’s really fun.
Lila: You — did you choose a strap-on… together?
Samia: Yes! We went to the store together; we actually bought several, so that we could build up to his dream, um—
Lila: Oh, he had a dream of having a—
Samia: Like a— we bought this really big dildo to fit into my, strap-on harness, that we called Brock. And down from Brock there was Mister Purple and down from Mister Purple there was Mister Blue. So we would start— we started— we bought all three, and we started with Mister Blue, and we worked our way up to Brock.
Lila: So how can they be interchangeable if the girth is different?
Samia: Um, it was an adjustable, harness— any size dildo could fit into it as long as it had like a wide, circular base.
Lila: Oh, okay.
Samia: Yeah. You could put on different rings of different sizes to make sure it stayed in place with different sizes of dildos. Uhmm, so it was great. It was a lot of fun, and I, I stopped being as into it when I had that hormonal shift in my early 30s, but when I was into it, I loved pegging my boyfriend, he was so cute when he was getting fucked. Like, I liked doing it from behind but my favorite was when he was on his back with his legs all frogged, he, froggied out and he looked like a sexy little frog (Lila giggles) and he loved it! He was so cute!
[49:22] Lila’s friend on needing to get into character with the strap-on, before fucking her girlfriend with it.
[49:53]
Samia: I used to be such a gender-switch, in bed. And I still am, to a degree. When I fuck women, I— can get really dominant. But when I fuck men these days, I always want them to be dominant, I, I’m turned off by being dominant with men these days. Uhm, I stopped being attracted to all the men I used to be attracted to.
Lila: Wow. So if you’ve stopped being attracted to— those men, how can you foresee being sexually-attracted to The Writer for the rest of your life?
Samia: Well because he withstood that transition. He… is bisexual. And, open about it. And, when he has sex with men, he’s a bottom. But when he has sex with women, he’s a top. He’s dominant. So, he appeals to the side of me that wants, to be with another queer person, and he’s v— he’s in touch with his feminine side, but not in a way that translates to our sex life. He has no desire for me to peg him. But he does want a man to fuck him. And that kind of works perfectly with me, because I’m the same exact way, I want a man to dominate the fuck out of me, but when I’m with a woman, I usually want to dominate the fuck out of her. (laughs) So, we’re, we’re, the same in that way.
[51:38] What kind of relationship does Lila want?
[51:50]
Lila: I want, I do want a romantic relationship with someone.
Samia: Yes.
Lila: And I think it would be really exciting to have sexual partners outside of that, and play outside of that. (Samia mm’s) And I think that the key, the key piece, is, me feeling cherished.
Samia: Absolutely. That’s it. That’s all you need and it opens all the doors.
Lila: And I think, I do think that I could be open to a lot of things if that were the case…
Samia: Well there you go; now you’ve just told the universe what you want. And that’s what you’re gonna get. It’s coming.
Lila: I’ve, I’ve, been saying this for a while.
Samia: It’s coming. There’s no way Lila Donnolo […] dies without ever having found a lover who cherishes her. There’s no way that happens; it’s not this universe.
[52:51] Lila on not feeling seen by her lover in Austin…
[53:52]
Lila: How— why, does this man who, who sees so deeply, not see me? […]
Samia: When people focus on something like that, and make it their whole livelihood, like, what, their work that they do, so often it’s their work that they do because those are the issues that they have to work on. That they have struggled to work on, the most, with.
[58:59] Lila on the decision to lower one’s expectations based on what someone else is willing to offer.
Lila: (very heated, practically yelling) But what, is driving me crazy — this is something that, that Leandra and I talk about all the time — is us making a choice to lower our expectations or to not have any reasonable expectations for someone’s, someone’s treatment of us—
Samia: Well—
Lila: — or someone’s valuing of us, in order to—
Samia: There have to be reasonable expectations. There has to be basic respect and niceness and lovingness, like, there has to be that. But there are some people out there who just don’t communicate. And there are people out there who are never gonna be, you know, like, as responsive and there-for-you as you want, and if that person is someone whose company you enjoy so much, that you would rather see them a little than not at all, […] then see them a little and know that you’re seeing them a little and be okay with that. Like accept it. And then move on with your life. Have other relationships. Like, y’know, you can still enjoy that person. In the bits and pieces that they are willing to give you.
Lila: And I have, yes.
Samia: And I do too, and I— you know, again, it’s like, yeah—
Lila: (overlapping) It doesn’t feel like accepting crumbs, to you?
Samia: No, because, it’s not like that’s the only person I’m seeing! You know, like—
Lila: Yes, but it’s crumbs from them.
Samia: Yeah, but I would rather get a crumb— of a delicious pastry than no pastry. (both laugh) I would rather have a bite of it than no bite—
Lila: It’s a really good pastry, Samia! Samia: It’s so good!
Lila: It’s a really, really good pastry.
Samia: And one magical—
Lila: And I WANT it.
Samia: And one magical thing I’ll share with you—
Lila: And I want moooore of—
Samia: Yes. Is sometimes, with, with people like that… when you decide to accept them for what they are, and decide you would rather have a little of their time than none of their time. A little of a relationship than no relationship. (Lila sighs) Sometimes the levity that you then bring into the relationship, because of that acceptance, changes it, and makes them suddenly more responsive. Because if you’re coming to the table with ease—
Lila: Energy. I understand.
Samia: Yeah, when you’re coming to the table with energy that is at ease, it is really sexy. When you’re coming to the table with energy that feels wounded and fearful of being abandoned, that is a boner-jam, and men (Lila laughs) are, men are more intuitive than we give them credit for, even though they can’t always explain why they’re behaving a certain way. […] I’ve had it happen to me multiple times, where, a relationship was feeling toxic and tense and fucked, until I released my expectations, and then suddenly this guy, who was previously being so elusive, was all over me, and it was like, “I don’t know why, but suddenly I just like, I can’t stop thinking about you and I just wanna rip your clothes off every time I see you!” And meanwhile, like, just for the last three months you’ve been putting me through hell telling me how th— this is too intense for you.
[1:01:47] Samia on releasing expectations.
Lila: Okay great: How do you release expectations? Releasing them, as though you’re fucking, letting balloons go, up into the sky. It’s not like that. How do you release expectation?
Samia: I think by looking at the information that you have, so much that you can’t deny it anymore. And accepting reality… That’s it. You can’t let something go that you don’t open your hand to look at. You have to look at it first.
[1:02:15] Lila “opens her hand” to look at the situation she has with this lover in Austin.
[1:09:36] Samia tells Lila a story about epic best friendship, with the person who is her person.
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