29. sexual attitude readjustment day: horizontal with a woman of sex tech

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http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/6450955

Lila:  Something I got to explore recently, which was really exciting— I didn’t think that I had a— a dominant, domme personality. (Bryony mmhm’s) Because being a domme, always seems to me to be … really just like a lot of work and (Lila giggles) and tiring (both laugh) —

Bryony:  “You mean I have to whip you?”

Lila:  Right, right!

Bryony:  (sighs theatrically) “And boss you around?”

Lila:  But in, in that kind of way, right, in this brassy kind of way. (Bryony mm’s) But there are other ways to be a domme, to be a femme-domme. And I didn’t realize that, until, very recently. So, Kenneth runs this team of people, and it’s often— full of a bunch of Villans and, and then some people that he works with in the community to … be cultivating sexy experiences for the guests at this House of Love Party. And I did it for the first time—

 

femme-domme (noun) = typically refers to a non-professional, female-identifying dominant in a BDSM context.

Bryony:  As a guest, or, you— cultivated the sexy—

Lila:  No, as a— working—

Bryony:  A femme-domme.

Lila:  — working at— in the group, yeah, as a femme-domme. And I did it for the first time because I had broken up with my partner, and my partner was … pretty much against BDSM. And I told him that it didn’t matter that much to me— and certainly, it didn’t matter more than having—  a loving, romantic relationship, but. It is something that I have wanted to explore. And so this gave me the opportunity, because it was an animal-themed party, and Kenneth put out a call for hunky … well-built men who … were open … to playing puppies, to being submissive pets. And that they would be walked around by his, his team of ladies, to be used and petted by the guests at the party, specifically for female pleasure. And so, several men volunteered and he had— had actually initially put me on this Sybian station, where, there’s these vibrating saddles, that you can help women to operate themselves, as a, as an exploration of greater vibration, right, ‘cause it vibrates your inner thighs and it vibrates on your clit, it’s not just localized like a vibrator … and I didn’t want to do that. (Lila laughs)

Bryony:  Have you ever done that? Like you’re the helper, for someone getting on a vibrator-saddle, that’s … that’s like bold.

Lila:  Yeah, I hadn’t— I, I, no—

Bryony:  (giggles) Okay.

Lila:  No, I hadn’t—

Bryony:  Alright, I was like, “Wow, Kenneth” —                                           Lila:  No, I hadn’t done that.

Bryony:  He’s signing you up for the major player roles here—

Lila:  No! That’s what he thought was the least intense!

Bryony:  Ahhhh, I love it! (cracks up)

Lila:  Right? Like that was gonna be the good entry point for me, ‘cause I was gonna work with somebody else who was a practiced tantrika and, you know, comfort— very comfortable with that and … but what I really wanted to be doing and what I wound up just — she was fine — I left her to go do … was to walk a hunky man around like a pet. And, I found, there was one who I was really attracted to, and I said, “May I?” and I put the leash on him. And I walked him around— he had never done it before, and he didn’t know that I had never done it before, but, I’ve done a lot of theatre and a lot of improvisation and a— and s—

 

tantrika (noun) = a female-identifying person who practices the tantric arts — often, but not always, tantric sexual rites.

Bryony:  You’d be great.

Lila:  — a bit of immersive theatre, right, so I was— and that’s what it is, it’s immersive theatre, right, so I walked him on the leash through this party, which was so fun for me, and it wasn’t the way that I— have— stereotyped a domme in my head. ‘Cause I wasn’t pulling him around on the leash, I wasn’t— I did spank him a little bit with a flogger that somebody gave me, which was great fun, but it wasn’t … it wasn’t for pain, it wasn’t for punishment, I was a very, I think, lovely, pet owner, right? So, I would just occasionally, point down, and he would get on his hands and knees (and we’d gotten them gloves and knee pads) — and he’d get on his knees and, and, you know, do as I bid, right, and if, if a woman looked and, and, seemed to be appreciating it, you know, her eyes got wide, I would say: “This is my pet; he’s here for your pleasure— would you like to pet him?” (Bryony giggles) “Would you like to scratch him? Would you like to spank him?” And I checked in with him, right, on on levels and I calibrated with him. (Bryony mm’s) Right, so where I would paddle him a little bit, and I would say, “On a scale of 1-10, what is that?” and he said, “Nn, it’s about a 4,” and I said, “Up ‘til what number could you experience pleasure?” And he said, “Around a 7 or an 8.” And I said okay, so I, I cranked my, my own up to a 5 or 6, right, because I wasn’t try to push an edge. It allowed me to be a nurturing domme, right, so to take, to take care of something and still contr— be in control, be controlling … the person’s … actions—

 

flogger (noun) = a BDSM tool with the appearance of an oversized tassel comprised of a handle, and many thick strands, usually made of leather, utilized in impact play and other sensation play.

Bryony:  That’s amazing.

Lila:  — with of course their permission, and so, I got really into it, right, so I— at several points I rode him like a pony. (both giggle) I sat on his sacrum and just put my, my toes up prettily, and he crawled, you know, across the room … and then I could tell that he had a little bit of, of Acro training and experience, and there’s a very very simple Acro move where, if the base is on hands and knees — you can picture that, right? (Bryony mmhm’s) And then, the flyer is is pointing in the other direction, and stands on the sacrum and on the shoulderblades — across the shoulderblades — it’s, it’s a fairly steady platform. You have to kind of bend one knee, because the, the shoulders are a little bit higher. And, basically, then, they can crawl across the room with you riding them like a chariot.

Bryony:  Oh my God.

Lila:  (gleeful) And so, I did that with him and we — we went across the House of Yes and parted the red sea!

Bryony:  Wow.

Lila:  It was … Amazing. I got high-fives, somebody reached out to kiss my hand—

Bryony:  Incredible, what a moment!

Lila:  It was so fun for me, it was so fun, it was delicious! He was having a good time. I was enjoying myself. The people watching were enjoying themselves … And then, the other bit that I came up with was: we were standing, and he couldn’t use his hands because his paws were filthy, right, he was, he had been, crawling around on the floor. And I said, “Give me … a lap dance, while I’m standing. And I just put my arms up, and he did his best to give me a lap dance while I was standing. And it was so good and so sexy — we actually kissed at the end, it was so good. And, and then there was another woman that I came across that was really excited and delighted, and I said, “Give her a little, a little dance.” And he danced for her, and she got flush and she like, “Wow. He’s really good. It’s been a long time!” (Lila laughs, Bryony aww’s) And, and so I was able to del— and there were other women who had never done anything like this before— they, they tried a paddle and then they gave it back to me with this “WOW” expression on their face, you know, so it was, it was delightful in all kinds of ways. I enjoyed, having the control, I enjoyed being nurturing, I enjoyed sharing him, which is something I don’t enjoy with, usually, with my own partner. So that was very interesting novel experience for me, and let me know that there’s so much out there that I could be exploring that could potentially be pleasurable for me that I haven’t explored before.

*

Bryony:  When I was 18, I had— the size of my head were the size of each of my breasts (Lila gasps) and I had such a hangup about after, what we call, “Schoolies Week.” Which, I don’t know if you have, it’s like Spring Break week. It’s the week you finish high school, and you all go away with your friends.

Lila:  Oh, no. Not as a— not as a tradition.

Bryony:  This is a thing, Schoolies Week and I— I went and bought this bikini, I thought I was so cool, I bought this orange bikini that, I guess fitted my tits, and (delightedly) I had a bright pink and orange cowboy hat— oh my gosh (Lila squeals) I must have looked straight outta Texas, and I remember, I would go for walks down the beach I’d like, walk down the beach, up and down the beach, I guess, I thought I was really cool — and I remember it was a total Mean Girls moment — I came back to the towel, and these girls were like, (high-pitched, annoying voice) “Bryony, it’s kinda inappropriate, like, your chest is just like, sticking out!”

Lila:  Oh!

Bryony:  At the time, you know you just don’t know at that point— you don’t really have that awareness that it’s a thing or like, you’re doing something— you know, you’re not really — you’re kind of growing up and learning this stuff. And I felt so embarrassed, so I then, went and changed and … I never wore that suit again.

Lila:  Ohhhhhh!

Bryony:  Now I’m like, “Fuck ‘em.”

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Season 2 of horizontal with lila is underway!

This recording was a momentous episode-occasion, my first collaboration with another podcaster, a fabulous podcaster, the ebullient, sunny, glorious, industrious, and, I can’t help but say, stunning Bryony Cole — host of the podcast Future of Sex (which explores the evolving worlds of sex and tech).

Horizontal, to paraphrase listener “ghostheart,” is the podcast that “takes you into my bed and lets your ears watch as I unzip intimate conversations.” So together … we are the future of sex … in bed. (We’re like a fortune cookie in podcast form!)

As a real-life extension of her show, Bryony moderates live panels with some of the most fascinating innovators and radicals in sexuality and technology. She organizes and hosts sex tech hackathons across the globe, seeding innovation in the field. She’s also, I must say, a stunningly gorgeous Australian beach babe — which would be a little difficult to deal with, if she wasn’t also one of the sunniest, most accommodating humans on the planet.

We got horizontal in Williamsburg, in Bryony’s bed. It was summertime, and though I asked Bryony turn off her air conditioner, there was nothing to be done about … other people’s air conditioners. Ah, the sounds of summer in Brooklyn, ladies and gentleman.

In the first part of our episode, titled “future of sex: horizontal with a sex tech podcaster,” we talk about catholic school skirts, the time I slapped a girl, being spared sex, and going to the chapel.

In this second part of this episode, we talk about alternative prom, my first femme-domme experience, bryony’s breasts, trying to heal ourselves through our podcasts, and Sexual Attitude Readjustment day.

Lie down with us, baby!

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If you enjoy lying down with us, become a patron of the horizontal arts! Patreon is a website that crowdsources income for artists. It can make it possible for me to continue making independent, uncensored, ad-free, homemade radio. For $10 a month you’ll receive a quarterly lullaby recorded be me. For $25 a month you’ll get special patron recordings of Lila’s favored love poems! Lots of other perks on patreon.com/horizontalwithlila

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Links to Things:

Patron of the horizontal arts!

For all things Bryony, navigate to FutureofSex.org

Bryony’s podcast Future of Sex on iTunes

The podcast editor that Bryony and I share! Chad Michael Snavely.

“The Face of Teenage Sex Grows Younger,” from the New York Times

Alternative Prom

The Gay-Straight Alliance, often the host of Alternative Proms

What is Schoolies Week? It’s an Australian thing.

What is vaginal de-armoring and how can one learn? Pamela Madsen tells you.

How to have a cervical orgasm, with Layla Martin

nJoy Pure Wand stainless steel dildo, the only dildo of my life

Kenneth Play, my housemate, a sex educator and “sex hacker” (I’ve learned so much from him.)

House of Love, a sexy party at the House of Yes

The Sybian, a horse-saddle-like vibrator

This is a lovely article about Pony Play

Women of Sex Tech, support these pioneers if you can!

The Freakonomics podcast episode about envy

SAR Day: Sexual Attitude Readjustment Day

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Show Notes (feel free to share quotes/resources on social media, and please link to iTunes, this website, or my Patreon!):

iTunes link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/horizontal-with-lila/id1238031115&ls=1

website link: https://horizontalwithlila.com/

Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/horizontalwithlila

[3:11]  What constitutes sex?

Bryony:  What is sex anyway?

Lila:  Because even now I will say that I didn’t have sex until I was 19, but when I was … 17, I sucked a cock. No, 16 I think. And when I was 17 — not until a year later, I think! (Bryony mm’s) — somebody tasted me, (Bryony mmm’s) went down on me. But I don’t consider that sex, my first sex, losing my virginity. I— I so want to make that cultural shift.

[3:47]  On the phrase “losing my virginity.”

Lila:  I also hate that term! “Losing” your virginity; you’re not—

Bryony:  Yeaaah.

Lila:  — losing anything. That comes from, again, a patriarchal (Bryony mmhmm’s) idea that the woman’s purity is something which can be lost! (Bryony mmhmm’s) And I don’t believe that. So I don’t want to use those terms, but they are so ingrained!

Bryony:  What’s the alternative? We need a better alternative. Like…

Lila:  First enjoyment of sex?

[4:37]  Bryony wonders if young people these days think that blow jobs are as low-stakes as kissing.

[4:58]

Lila:  I don’t know a lot of teenagers, so I don’t— I don’t actually know. But it seems like: the jadedness comes with the internet. (Bryony mm’s) That because they’ve seen it— they’ve seen the pornification of— sex, there is a blasé-ness about it. And then that’s, that’s sooo far in the other direction, it’s too far in the other direction from “it’s so sacred that it should only be done after you get married,” (Bryony mmhm’s) “otherwise it’s sinful,” right, which is so repressive and painful to so many people and then people feel like they’re violating (Bryony mmhm’s) and violating against their higher power— I mean it did— that’s soooo repressive and makes so many people ill. And then this, this other end of the spectrum, where it’s, “Oh, sex is meaningless, it’s just, you know, yeah you just, you go to— I don’t even know, what do they do, do they still go to a movie? And you go down on a guy and it’s no big deal. (Bryony mmm’s) But what I read from articles and, and some young people writing, is that: the guys aren’t going down on them. It’s really the girls trying to please the guys by sucking their cocks (Bryony mm’s) and they’re not really receiving … pleasure in return, like the “no big deal” is the girls sucking cocks … not oral sex in general.

Bryony:  Right.

[6:22]  Lila: Oh my God! I had this… effusive crush on this guy who was in my high school. When I was in high school. And after he graduated I did finally get him to go out with me and we went to this Alternative Prom, which was thrown by I think the Straight-Gay Alliance group. And I dressed in drag.

[Lila mixed up the name. It is the Gay-Straight Alliance, or GSA. It still exists.]

Bryony:  You are awesome.

Lila:  (laughs) And as I was wearing his clothes, I was some like, khaki pants and a button-down shirt and a … necklace, shell necklace or something, and then I had— I had cut my hair for the first time. (Bryony mm’s) I had always very long hair and this— was the first time since I was maybe a child that I cut my hair right above my shoulders. I didn’t wind up liking it, but I liked it that day, (Bryony mm’s) because then I could slick it back into something that really looked very androgynous. (Bryony mm’s) And I, didn’t have proper facial hair prosthetics to wear, so I just (Bryony giggles) painted on a goatee with brown eyeliner— a mustache and goatee with brown eyeliner. But that is the most attracted he ever—

Bryony:  Wow!

Lila:  — showed me that he was to me. Which, leads me to believe that he was— there was a rumor that he was closeted and that he was really in love with his best friend … and they did a lot of horseplay, where they pretended— to— buttfuck each other! (Bryony mm’s) They’re fully-clothed, right, at school, just but, that, but that was their—

Bryony:  Very erotic!

Lila:  That— that was their game, where they just pretended they were— which— is— wildly bizarre now that I think of it, that that was a game for them to— or, like a joke, that they would continually enact! And the guy was— his best friend that we think he, he was in love with, was so mean, he was such a mean motherfucker … and my sense is that he was straight, but this guy Jonathan that I had the hots for was really closeted and was, was actually homosexual, which would explain why he had more attraction to me when I was presenting male.

Bryony:  Totally.

Lila:  And he wore this, I found the photo recently, which is why the memory’s a little bit stronger (when I was visiting my mom I looked through some old photos) he wore this shiny green suit … and he had terrible terrible acne. But I didn’t care. Because he smelled so good to me … that, I could be at my locker, and he would be all the way down at the other end of the hall.

Bryony:  (soft) Hm.

Lila:  And I would have my back turned, and I would know: He’s in the hallway. And I would just— (laughs softly at herself) inhale…

Bryony:  Take in the scent—

Lila:  Yeah I was s—

Bryony:  — like an animal.

Lila:  Yes! I was so, almost feral I— attracted to him. (Bryony mm’s) So I finally get this guy to go out with me, we go to this alternative prom, and I don’t remember the prom at all but I remember— afterwards, I, I think we were at his— home … but he went down on me. And he made a show of picking a hair out of his— mouth. And I felt so ashamed for having hair I— I’d had so much body-shame about having really dark hair. And really light skin. And he made this show of picking a hair— maybe even made a joke about my, smell and I felt so—

Bryony:  (sympathetically) Nnn, so harsh.

Lila:  — mortified. And still then wanted to go down on him, (Bryony chortles) and he wouldn’t let me. He didn’t want me to please him. It was so interes— it was so strange, he really …

Bryony:  Wow.

Lila:  … he really did a number on me.

[10:26]  Bryony on her friend and the sexuality of boxing.

[10:43]

Bryony:  Boxing is very sexual.

Lila:  Yes!

Bryony:  It’s so sexual, and that’s like an outlet for men to be— The, the line between violence and sex is so …

Lila:  Yesss!

Bryony:  … interchangeable.

Lila:  I am so glad that you heard that from a man, because I’ve long thought that football was an opportunity for men to touch each other (Bryony mmhm’s) in a socially-acceptable way! (Bryony mmhm’s) And I’ve long felt very sad that they had to tackle each other in order to do it.

“Participation in boxing also enables them to develop a more nuanced understanding than that offered by Oates of the erotic aspect of the sport. For Denfeld, contact sports such as boxing promote a heightened physical awareness, a sensuality that is physically intense without necessarily being sexual, a ‘form of eroticism that can occur without sexual arousal.'”

– David H.T. Scott, The Art and Aesthetics of Boxing.

[12:40]  Lila admires Bryony’s chest.

[12:52]  Bryony on her breasts.

[14:54]  What does Lila still want to learn about sex?

[15:10]  Lila on the possibility of regaining sensation inside the vaginal canal. One name for this is vaginal de-armoring.

 

vaginal de-armoring (verb) = the process by which, through vaginal mapping and pelvic release work, the vaginal canal relaxes, and becomes a source of pleasure

cervical orgasms (noun) = a type of orgasm in which the opening of the cervix is stimulated with pressure from fingers, a dildo, or a penis

[15:25]

Lila:  For so many years, I basically felt entirely numb on the inside— to where people could— I could stick my fingers in, or, or a lover could stick their fingers in and it’s just, “Nnn.”

Bryony:  Why, why?

Lila:  Didn’t feel like much of anything. I don’t know. I was ex— exceptionally tight and also nervous, and then, more tight, for a long time, but I don’t know why that lack of sensation. And so I didn’t really— I didn’t really care for anything that, that penetrated me internally— nothing really felt that great. Until— I moved into the house and started playing with the … the nJoy Pure wand dildo that Kenneth has, because he taught me how to use it— and somebody, somebody else, another female housemate who has since moved out, she also, kind of, guided me on, on her experience with it, and that’s when I started to learn that, that an internal stimulus could be pleasurable if I got it in the right spot. (Bryony mm’s) Because of the weight and the curved nature of the nJoy, you can use it— and it doesn’t require a lot of mechani— it doesn’t require a lot of muscular effort, you can just use it to tap the g-spot. And Kenneth will say, you know, you tap it with the amount of pressure (whether you’re using your hand or whether you’re using a dildo) that you would use to bruise an avocado. (Bryony mmhm’s) That amount of pressure is probably a good amount— which I think is a really nice calibrating (Bryony mmhm’s) tool. I want to wake up the inside of my body. I want to be able to feel my partner, I want, I want more pleasure from penetration.

[18:24]  Lila on her first femme-domme experience.

[26:25]  Bryony poses the question, “How do we even know what we’re turned on by?”

[27:29]  Before Bryony started her Future of Sex podcast, did she talk about sex?

[28:02]  What events conspired to inspire Bryony to begin making a show about sex and technology? Bryony the provocateur.

[28:53]  Bryony on interviewing guys about creating “scent releases.”

[29:32]

Bryony:  When I— was interviewing these guys, not about Future of Sex, about another project, I was so curious, I was like, “What is the craziest thing, the craziest smell that you’re working on? The one that you’re most excited about.”

[30:37]

Bryony:  The next thing out of his mouth that he was creating was humans, or, alive ones … the smell of supermodels in a hot tub.

[31:31]

Bryony:  It just sparked this question for me about: What happens when this sort of technology is available to all of us? And not just uh, super geeky talented genius guy who’s creating these things to release different smells. What happens to structures and … I think for me I was thinking, “Well, what happens to relationships?” And then, a core of it is: “What happens to sex? Are you even gonna have any?” And I thought, “Oh, okay. That’s a thing.” Noone’s talking about this stuff. Are they? Are they talking about this stuff? Let me go and talk to some people who think they’re talking about this stuff. And so that sparked it, and it also sparked this whole thing around, “Oh my gosh, I’m talking publicly about sex and, how shameful,” and, you know, getting phone calls from my mum saying I can’t— “How will I tell people at home. I can’t even explain what you do.”

[32:26]  Bryony on “coming out” to her mom about having a sex podcast.

[32:54]  Does Lila’s family know about her podcast?

[33:04]

Lila:  My dad is so… he’s just so supportive. He’s just so supportive, and and, you know, I want to make something and I tell him why I want to make it and he says, “Well great, Lila.” You know, and, and I think I, I told him about the podcast, we we have Chinese food, and then we go to see an action movie, a fantasy movie—

Bryony:  Is that a ritual?

Lila:  That’s a ritual, yeah, a comic book movie. And I told him at the buffet. (giggles) And … and he said, (matter-of-factly) “Welp. It’s a part of life.” You know?

Bryony:  I love that response. He’s real.

Lila:  That he is just so— And my dad is on my Facebook; he sees pretty much everything that I post and, I’m not, I don’t feel any concern about sharing with him or or or — there’s no shame from him, which is— I’m so grateful for—

Bryony:  That’s so awesome.

Lila:  And he’s also the, the first person that I came out to in my— I mean, I only have my two parents, I don’t have other family that I’m really close to, but— I told him first, about living in the house. (Bryony mm’s) And he said: “Hm. Well you know, sex should really be— only be about 20% of someone’s life,” and I said (raising her pitch) “Where are you getting this statistic?” (laughs) And I said, “Ok, interesting, Dad.”

Bryony:  Wow. Yeah. What percentage should it be? (Lila laughs) Maybe dad’s right.

Lila:  Maybe he’s right! Actually, I—

Bryony:  Twenty percent sounds like a good number.                           Lila:  For my, for myself—

Lila:  — I think, yeah, that’s—

Bryony:  Accurate.

Lila:  Yeah, that’s plenty!

Bryony:  That’s cool.

[35:34]  Lila on talking with mom about being the subject of nude photos.

[36:00]  Lila on walking around naked at the Villa (a clothing optional household). What happened when she walked around naked as a teenager?

[36:27]

Lila:  I remember her being really concerned, ‘cause I always loved to walk around naked, so I was living with her in Florida and I would be walking around naked and she’d be like, “Shut the! Shut the! Somebody’s gonna see you and you’re so beautiful, somebody’s gonna—” Gonna stalk you, basically. She thinks somebody is gonna stalk me. And that of course has led me to be super paranoid and very very wary on the street, right. So I haven’t told her about the podcast because … I’m speaking so— such vulnerable things into the world, such— things about my sexual history, that— I think, my mother believes are private— are meant to be private. And, I believe that … that belief, that they are meant to be private —  is keeping a lot of people in a lot of pain and ignorance. […] My hope is to get to a point where I have a milestone she can understand— like a profile in a magazine that’s that’s, that she knows or, or I’m invited on some sort of show that she can see that she sees, “Oh, you know, my daughter is being celebrated for what she is doing — it can’t be that bad, she’ll be ok.” You know? My—

Bryony:  Yes.

Lila:  My hope.

Bryony:  I 100% know exactly how you feel.

Lila:  I thought you might!

[38:02]  Bryony and Lila on the legitimacy of their public conversations about sex.

[39:25]

Bryony:  We’re basically trying to heal ourselves through our podcasts. (both laugh)

Lila:  Sure! … And I have to tell you that I have, like, a little bit of a girl crush on you and then, also like, a little bit of envy, which I think is always—

Bryony:  I love that!

Lila:  — wrapped up in a girl crush.

Bryony:  Mm.

Lila:  And, I, had, many, friends in my early life that were girls that I wanted to be — they were more beautiful and they were more xyz and the other thing, and I have a little bit of a story about you that you’re just ahead of me in kind of all realms, and it’s this hierarchical thinking— and judgment and placing people in— ranks, that I, I dislike about myself, that’s present when I say that.

[40:44]  The Freakonomics podcast episode about envy— the tailwind and the headwind.

[41:37]  On why Lila makes so much effort to look immaculate.

[42:34]

Lila:  And then there’s, there’s a healthy piece of it too, right, which is— (Bryony mmhm’s) that (and maybe when I’m in a more positive frame of mind and I think of it this way, that I was … Somehow, I arrived in this body, and so this body is my home, and— there’s something that feels reverent about that, and, so if I don’t treat my form with reverence, if I don’t adorn it like I would an altar, then I’m not doing … this body that I was given … the reverence that it deserves.

[43:20]  Bryony on an exercise about body parts that she did with a group of 30 nude people in Costa Rica.

[44:34]  On how we might use envy in a positive way: to show us what we value and what we desire.

[45:20]

Bryony:  Do you want to get married married?

Lila:  Yeess. Although sometimes I think it would be nice to do it all without the legal piece. (laughs)

Bryony:  Yeah.

Lila:  But I want— oh Bryony, (small voice) I want the wedding.

Bryony:  Really?

Lila:  Yeah, I want the— I want the ceremony. I have actually been collecting images for many years for a Pinterest board that I call “Wedding Dreaminess” that uhm, has all of these … these ideas, you know, like the farmer’s market theme, the, the carnival theme, the, (laughs) all these themes and all these colors and— when I was a brunette was mainly when I was thinking about this, and I wanted to wear: a yellow dress.

Bryony:  So cool.                                                                                          Lila:  And—

Lila:  And had the— like, a, a palette that I envisioned that would be desert sunset colors (Bryony mmhm’s) and I’ve been kind of looking for (chuckles ruefully) a man who could fit into this picture, (Bryony mm’s) a man who takes care with his dress the way that I do— and I don’t think I’ve actually ever dated someone who did. So it’s not a deal-breaker, it’s not something that— my last partner didn’t really care for fashion. It wasn’t important to him. Would do it sometimes to please his family or to please me— would put himself together, right, but it wasn’t important to him. It would be— delicious— … a friend whose known me for a long time, maybe 10 years, said, “Yeah, okay, you can, you can do without it but— when you think of what it would be like to be with someone who did …?” I think of (laughs at herself) I think of matching costumes—

Bryony:  AMAZING.

Lila:  — for— for all these wild parties.

Bryony:  Yeah.

Lila:  Right, all the— I think of things that you could do in tandem (Bryony mm’s) and that would be better done in tandem. Rogue and Cyclops. And, you know, th— th— things like that, where you would have characters that you would play together and just, I think about that idea of being a unit, (Bryony mm’s) and and being curated, in a way— that you look— lovely. You look lovely together. I mean that’s something that, that I would like— that, like I said, is not the most important thing in the world to me. It’s extremely important that my man be … kind and loving and warm and— doing something that he loves with his life and open-minded and liberal, these things are very important … but gee. It would be nice!

[48:04]  What is the deeper reason why Lila wants to have a wedding party?

[48:59]  Some of the alternative relationship styles Lila has considered.

[49:24]

Lila:  I also think about, potentially having different rooms … (Bryony mmhm’s) or living in different places, which is still so, considered so— surprising (Bryony mmhm’s) and even taboo. And I was talking about this the other day— as though it’s not a real relationship, unless you are cohabitating, and yet it seems cohabitating … causes so many problems.

[49:50]  Bryony’s friend was wondering whether this was possible.

[50:26]

Lila:  I think that people have been doing it in different ways for some time, like: bicoastal—

Bryony:  Oh, true.

Lila:  Where mainly, you know, one partner will spend their time in the New York home and one partner will spend much of their time in the L.A. home and then, when they … come together in one place, it feels maybe, a little bit more vacation-like.

Bryony:  Yeah.

Lila:  It seems like that can sustain a lot of excitement. And not drill people into that … boredom.

Bryony:  The mundane.

Lila:  Yeah. Of the laundry and did you pick up the thing and, you know you have to do the— the doctor’s appointment and do you (Bryony mmhm’s) did you remember the milk and—

Bryony:  Yeah I mean there’s more long-distance relationships now than ever before, and thanks in part to technology, these ideas are more acceptable, right, that you can sustain— a relationship through the internet. For a while. In between. For months at a time.

[51:33]  Lila quotes the non-binary individual she’s been sexting with who said they are “torn between wanting to dismantle romance, and wanting to spread it.” They feel that our current notion of romance is an impoverished tradition.

[53:34]

Lila:  Where do those societal expectations and doctrines end and where do my feelings and actual desires begin?

[53:45]  What does Lila miss the most about being in a relationship?

[54:44]  Is Bryony’s current ideal a monogamous partnership?

[56:39]  Bryony tells Lila a story about SAR Day: Sexual Attitude Readjustment Day.

http://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/6450955