This is Madison Young. That is my arm. I took this photo during her one-woman show Reveal All Fear Nothing. (It’s okay, she told me to.)
38. reveal all fear nothing: horizontal with a feminist pornographer
This is a special edition of horizontal, the podcast that takes you into my bed and lets your ears watch as I unzip intimate conversations. horizontal aims to dispel shame, diminish loneliness, and cultivate connections. This conversation was recorded last week at Hacienda Villa, the intentional community and center for sex education in Bushwick, Brooklyn: my home.
Lila: Once I participated in what we decided would be called a saturation —
saturation (noun) = a curated event, during which sensual and/or sexual attention and sensation play is focused on a single pleasure recipient in accordance with their written Menu of Sensory Delights and the toolkit available on hand.
Menu of Sensory Delights (noun) = organized like a restaurant menu, including sections such as: appetizers, entrees, and dessert, this document is written by an individual (often in advance of a saturation or other kinky play) to encompass many — if not all — of their most favorite ways to receive pleasurable stimulus. The menu includes stimulation for all five senses: touch, of course, but also taste, smell, sight (even if the darkness of a blindfold), and hearing.
— because, we wanted an alternative to a gangbang. A gangbang is great, for the people who desire a gangbang, and, we wanted multiple bodies focused on giving our body sensation. And so, a sensation play extravaganza. And we decided that this was called: a saturation.
Madison: Hmm—
Lila: Mirelle and I—
Madison: — I like that.
Lila: — who’s the first— on the first episode of the podcast, who, I believe you met. She was there the other night, at your talkback. And so, she developed this saturation idea as just a wish, a desire for her birthday, a couple of years ago, annd I attended. She created a menu, of all of the things that she was open to receiving that night — from anybody who was involved, because it was a very curated group—
Madison: Mmhmm.
Lila: And she wrote it as a menu, so she wrote appetizers and entrees and desserts, and we had a, an array, a plethora of, tools and instruments that we could use on her, and she’s somebody who studies language, and teaches language, and so one of the things that she desired that I immediately honed in on, was to be read to, but she didn’t provide any books on the table. So I went upstairs and got a book she had given me, she’d given me Pussy, by Mama Gena, or Regena Thomaschauer, and I brought it downstairs, and, I think I read her the wrong part of the book—
Madison: Oh!
Lila: — because, I hadn’t read it yet. Since I have read it— I’ve actually listened to it twice while I was on the road, I listened to it back to back, it’s the only thing that I did that with … and … I wound up reading her sort of like the (giggling) glossary (both crack up) and, it’s written in such — if you dive in, at that point, it’s written in such a s— a silly way, that it, it, can be hard to, to grasp around, or to be turned on by—
Madison: Uhhuh.
Lila: — and so, however, it did bring a lot of laughter, and laughter was a sensation… that she could experience that maybe you wouldn’t think of, as sensation play.
Madison: Yyeah.
Lila: Right, maybe that wouldn’t be, that— I don’t think it was in my idea of what sensation play is (Madison mmhm’s). I was thinking “Oh, well it’s more, serious and sensual and (Madison giggles) surprising and hard and fast an’ — light and fun and— but not like funny. (Madison uhhuhs) And this was really funny to us (Madison uhhuhs) and so, she was just with the blindfold on—
Lila: — lying down, receiving — Madison: Oh my gosh, I love that.
Lila: — touch from all these people, and massages and creams and pinwheels (Madison laughs) and then she was just laughing at the ridiculousness of this glossary. [Note: A pinwheel is also called a Wartenberg wheel, and that is how it is listed in my glossary!]
Madison: (Madison uhhuhs, Lila giggles) I love that. There’ve been a few times that I’ve masturbated publicly while reading things that are really not erotic at all, like—
Lila: Ohh!
Madison: The book How to Get Things Done. (Lila laughs) And masturbating.
Lila: Amazing!
Madison: Umm, (both giggle) yesss, which I, I think is super sexy to like, read the phone book—
Lila: Right.
Madison: — and masturbate (Lila makes an “I just remembered something” sound) or, make it sexy.
*
Lila: I did a scene just, just out here … and it was only my second time being suspended. (Madison mmhm’s) And it was at our Unicorns & Rainbows party that we threw here—
Madison: That sounds, quite magical! Lila: — which was so fun.
Lila: I wish you were there.
Madison: Yeah, me too! Lila: I wish you were there.
Visual aid of one of my unicorn horns, the finest unicorn horns in all the land, purchase-able at Brooklyn Owl. (Shot taken in the bathroom at House of Yes. Not the night of Unicorns & Rainbows at Hacienda. We don’t allow photography. Come on!)
Lila: And so, I was wearing a unicorn horn, a long silver unicorn horn, and I was caught, I was the the unicorn who was caught in the rainbow rope. (Madison laughs) And, it caught in a, in a j— in a jumping (Madison uhhuhs) sort of, like a l— a leaping horse position—
Madison: Yes.
Lila: With my hands like the hooves. And, when we rehearsed it we rehearsed it in the basement, because there are hard points in the basement. And we got to a point — and I suppose we spent a couple of hours. It was with, it was with, Oz — I suppose we spent a couple of hours, prepping it and and, you know, checking in and making— and I can communicate very clearly about, you know, just, the discomfort that I am willing to handle and the discomfort that is not idea and, we got it to a really good point. (I’ve also held lots of uncomfortable positions as an actor), so I— (laughs)
hard point (noun) = a stable, secure point (often in the ceiling), from which the suspension of a human body is reasonably safe.
Madison: (overlapping) Oh yeah. Great.
Lila: Well, a certain amount—
Madison: Great training.
Lila: Yeah, a certain amount that I can handle. And, it felt good, and it looked good, (Madison mmhm’s) but then when we performed, we performed out here, (Madison mmhm’s) on the terrace, and I … being inexperienced with rope, didn’t recognize that: if you’re on a hard point that’s in a ceiling that’s one thing. But if you are hanging from a strap, that’s not directly on a hard point, that’s swinging of its own, it’s a different thing. And so when he put me in the rope— also there was a lot of commotion, right, there’s like a hundred people—
Madison: Right.
Lila: — around at this play party. We’re— entertaining, and, of course there’s the show adrenaline, (Madison mmhm’s) that you get, which mmm— usually means you’re less aware of your limits because you’ve got the adrenaline pumping through your veins, and — he tied me and it wasn’t as. There were, points that were painful in a way that didn’t feel super sustainable. But yet, I have the conditioning in me from being an actor from 7 years old, that’s like “the show must go on.”
Madison: Right.
Lila: And so, you know, he didn’t do all of the things that we did— we did, he tied the unicorn horn! He tied my ponytail! (Madison uhhuhs) When we, when we rehearsed it. He did, he did li— all these little ties that were adorable. (Madison uhhuhs) We didn’t do that. But we did manage to get me up, and then, you know, I was like, well, “Let’s just do it,” you know, under my breath.
Madison: Right, yeah. Lila: Let’s just do it.
Lila: And, we had these huge balloons up above that were oversized balloons, maybe 36 inches, clear, filled with confetti. (Madison mmhm’s) And they were hanging up near the top of the shade structure. (Madison uhhuhs) And Kenneth, uh, cracked a whip and broke them with a whip, so CONFETTI RAINED DOWN, OVER THE UNICORN!
Madison: Ohhh, wow, ooawww!
Lila: Caught in the web! The rainbow ropes. And, so then, once we got that, you know, the, the climax of it then, you know, he took me down as quickly as he could, and I was frustrated. (Madison mm’s sympathetically) And I didn’t understand— ‘cause it was only later that I understood that I was on a different kind of point, and it wasn’t gonna be the same, and that—
Madison: Right.
Lila: And that, also, the same tie might not be the same on a different day, but I was like, (a bit of a whine) You did something different! You never do that, between dress rehearsal and opening night, you don’t do something different, that’s not fair!
Madison: Right.
Lila: You know, and I was like, mad, and I didn’t want the aftercare.
Madison: And it’s hard to be in that headspace too, also when you’re, performing. I mean, and James knows my body so well, he’s my, my Daddy, my Dominant, my husband, and, we were doing a rope bondage performance, um, at, a college, at Reed College, in Portland—
Lila: Oh, yeah!
Madison: — Oregon, for their sex week—
Lila: That’s awesome.
Madison: And we had all of these students there, they had been waiting for us, there was traffic or something and we were a little bit, late, and so I actually even forgot to stretch, because—
Lila: Ohhhhhhh.
Madison: — as soon as I got there, I was like, “Hello! I am Madison Young,” —
Lila: Of course.
Madison: “I’m so sorry that you’ve been waiting!” And, we just jumped right into it. And we had discussed the performance, we had everything worked out, um, however, there’s also a lot of improv, that happen— there’s a lot of improvisation that happens—
Lila: Of course.
Madison: — annd, a couple years ago, Iii fractured my finger, in a bike accident, and, and James TIED THAT FINGER. (Lila gasps) I WAS LIKE, “MOTHER—” you know, again, UNDER THE, UNDER THE BREATH, like, (through gritted teeth) I’m fucking LOOKING at him, with like the EYES OF DEATH, you know, like—
Lila: Yes. Fucker…
Madison: — trying to, you know—
Lila: Nooooooooo.
Madison: — not have the audience see what’s going on—
Lila: Ohhhhhhh.
Madison: — and he thinks I’m just being cat and mouse with him, of… and I’m trying to communicate to him: No.
Lila: Nooo.
Madison: I’m trying to safeword, but I can’t really safeword, in the middle of a
Madison & Lila: performance.
Madison: Just: Lay off the finger!
Lila: (way under the breath) Fuuuuck.
Madison: Yeah, so, you know, things like that happen, even when you’ve been performing for years and years together. It can be challenging.
Lila: Did it affect the aftercare that you wanted from him?
Madison: (pause) Yyyes. I needed to process a little bit of the emotional, like, “Why didn’t you hear me?”
Lila: Yes.
Madison: And, and get through that. And it’s just challenging being in front of an— audience again and performing—
Lila: Yeah…
Madison: — and still wanting to show them the vulnerability, and and the connection, (Lila uhhuhs) trying to let that thing go, but also needing to advocate for your body.
Lila: Of course.
Madison: So, yeah, it can be tricky when you’re, when you’re doing very physical performance.
Lila: Most of the people, after my unicorn performance, most of the people kind of faded away and went to another space, but there were still, a few people around and people who wanted to chat, you know, and ask me how it felt and, some experienced rope people who wanted to say like, “Hey, I saw you, like I saw you work through that. Good job.” You know. Especially for being so inexperienced. Good job. And, I didn’t really want to be touched by, the person who tied me afterwards. He brought me water, I appreciated that. And then I just kind of sat, on the floor of the terrace.
Madison: Yeah.
Lila: And, there was the confetti. And I’m very much a, a tactile sensation person, and I, I self-soothe by, by stroking my arm and stroking my clavicle, my face, and I self-soothe by wearing jewelry of big tassels, things that I can touch, so that I can stroke and feel … you know, more relaxed, and so I was taking the confetti in big handfuls, and other people were doing it with me, too, and just, just, pouring it over my head, sprinkling it over my head, and that felt like very good self-aftercare. (Madison mmhm’s) Just, like scooping it up and letting it come down and, it moved very slowly and then—
self-aftercare (noun) = the practices and rituals that a person knows they find soothing and comforting, and can create for themselves after the close of a performance, a BDSM scene, a kink session, or a sexual encounter.
Madison: That’s such an important point, I think is is, knowing our own, self-care as well, and our own self-aftercare, especially as someone who, did so many bondage porn scenes? The directors are not there, and the rope artists are not there to give me aftercare. (Lila mm’s) So it’s really up, up to me, i— and, even the best ones, I mean there just, another— sometimes you’ll have a check in, occasionally, but largely … not, it’s not, it— You’re there as a, a model, not given aftercare, so—
Lila: I wish that were a part of the work.
Madison: Yeah. So knowing, uh, what you need, and creating your own, I would contact friends, or, lovers, and tell them, “I’m going in, for what’s going to be a really intense scene. Can you maybe come over and just sit with me?” (Lila mm’s) “Afterward. I might not be able to verbalize anything, but I feel like I just wanna have someone present.”
Lila: Like a comfort animal.
Madison: Yeah.
Lila: Comfort person.
Madison: Yeah.
Lila: I told my lover the other day— Madison: Just kind of not being alone—
Madison: Or sometimes you do want to be alone. But having someone even on call.
[36:49]
Lila: And sometimes you don’t know and you can say, “I’m not sure exactly what I’m gonna need it might be, one of these things, it might be something else entirely, are you up for offering that to me?”
This is a special edition of horizontal, the podcast that takes you into my bed and lets your ears watch as I unzip intimate conversations. horizontal aims to dispel shame, diminish loneliness, and cultivate connections.
This, too, is Madison Young.
In this episode, I lie down with Madison Young. Madison is a performance artist, an author, a sex educator, and a feminist pornographer. Our conversation was recorded last week at Hacienda Villa, the intentional community and center for sex education in Bushwick, Brooklyn: my home.
Last week, Hacienda Studio, our event space, hosted three performances of Madison Young’s one-woman show Reveal All Fear Nothing. It is literally like nothing else I’ve ever seen. Reveal All demystifies, illuminates, and celebrates the often-misunderstood worlds of kink, porn, and BDSM, through the words and body of an insider.
It is important work. It needs to be seen. And it needs to be seen by you. I don’t want to reveal too much for her, because you should watch her reveal it yourself, but I must tell you this: I haven’t even seen my own g-spot yet… but I’ve seen Madison’s.
Did you even know that was possible?
You could say, quite accurately, that I was moved. In so many ways. Throughout the night, I laughed, I danced, I gasped, my heart hurt, I ran upstairs during intermission and gave my date a blow job … I cheered, and I was left with this liquid pool of gratitude at the astonishing generosity with which Madison has crafted this piece. She made us a gift. Go enjoy it!
Madison will be performing THIS WEEKEND in a two-night-only limited engagement at The Tank in Midtown Manhattan on Friday the 8th and Saturday of the 9th of June, 2018. Make it your mission to be there. You can get your tickets on RevealAllFearNothing.com – There is radical sexual healing to be had, merely by being a witness to this work.
In the first part of our episode, we talk about Madison’s memoir, titled “Daddy,” saturations, rainbow unicorn bondage, self-aftercare, how a porn star prepares, and the petition that stopped Madison from going to church.
And now you can do something that legions of fans have only dreamed of. You can come lie down with us.
hello from: horizontal with Madison Young!
Consider yourself teased. This is the teaser for a special edition of horizontal with lila, the podcast that takes you into my bed and lets your ears watch as I unzip intimate conversations. horizontal aims to dispel shame, diminish loneliness, and cultivate connections. In this episode, I lie down with Madison Young.
If you enjoy lying down with Madison and I, become a patron of the horizontal arts! Patreon is an innovation in the life of the artist. It’s a website that crowdsources income on a monthly basis. It can make it possible for me to continue creating independent, uncensored, ad-free homemade radio. My intention is to keep this podcast ad-free, but also to make this my primary career. Show me that you believe in my mission of cultivating intimacy across the world (and dislike ads)!
Links to Things:
Patron of the horizontal arts!
Reveal All Fear Nothing, Madison’s radical one-woman show, a journey in sex, love, porn, and feminism.
Get tickets to Reveal All at The Tank in NYC June 8th & 9th! Do it!
MadisonYoung.org (her website is currently down)
Madison’s memoir, Daddy, about her relationship with her Dom / husband. (P.S. Every time Madison signs a book for someone, she kisses it before giving it back to you. How lovely is that!)
Hacienda Studio, Hacienda’s sex-positive event space, which hosted three Brooklyn shows of Reveal All in May 2018
Pussy, A Reclamation. A book by Regena Thomaschauer, also known as “Mama Gena,” that coaches people with pussies to harness their feminine powers. Even if you don’t have one, you should still probably read it.
Stoya’s Hysterical Literature video, part of Clayton Cubitt’s series. Lila thinks this is one of the sexiest things a person can watch.
Stoya’s essay, reprinted in VICE under the title “The Time I Told My Grandmother I’ve Been Using Her Name to Make Porno.” This is one of the pieces in the book Coming Out Like a Porn Star.
The Hitachi Magic Wand, perhaps the most popular vibrator of all time. (During the episode, I confess to having never tried one. Madison insisted I should try one Right Then, but we didn’t have one on hand!)
Andrew Sparksfire, co-founder of Hacienda Villa, my home, and Madison’s host while she works on the Manhattan debut of Reveal All.
Brooklyn Owl, the place to buy your unicorn horns.
James Mogul, Madison’s husband, on Twitter.
An article from the Submissive Guide on self-aftercare.
Empire Travel Agency, the last theatrical piece Lila performed in. Created by the immersive theatre company Woodshed Collective.
Madison reads books. And poses with them, too. During her solo show, Reveal All Fear Nothing.
Show Notes (feel free to share quotes/resources on social media, and please link to iTunes, this website, or my Patreon!):
iTunes link: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/horizontal-with-lila/id1238031115&ls=1
website link: https://horizontalwithlila.com/
Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/horizontalwithlila
[4:46] Madison reads Lila the preface to her memoir, Daddy.
[7:59]
Lila: It reminds me of that part of your show where you say, that when you created a scene in a porn, you thought (so generously, I felt) “I’m not just having sex with my co-star,” (Madison mmhm’s) “I’m having sex with everyone who will ever see this video,” and you seemed to take delight in it, it seemed to be a beautiful manifestation of your sexual gift to the world.
Madison: Absolutely, I see the camera, and even this microphone, I mean it’s, you know a conduit, it’s this, this pipeline of, of energy, of our voice, of our body, of, our sexuality, that goes out into the world and touches other people … (Lila mm’s) they have these experiences then that, you know sometimes I, sometimes they write me about, sometimes I hear about years later—
Lila: Yes.
Madison: But it’s, it’s brilliant, I mean like, it’s a catalyst for all of these other sexual revelations happening in other people and—
Lila: Yesss.
Madison: — wonderful sexual energy.
Lila: I love hearing about couples who listen to, to horizontal together… (chuckles) there’s somebody who said, “It’s lead to many lovely conversations and … conversations (Madison laughs) afterwards.”
Madison: Nice.
[9:34] The only other time Madison heard an excerpt from her book read by someone other than her … it was by her / a demo bottom.
demo bottom (noun) = a person who performs the bottom position in a BDSM workshop / tutorial / class / demonstration, in which the instructor performs the top role. Sometimes they also consent to being practiced on by those who are learning.
[10:46] Lila’s titillating saturation experiences.
[14:09] Lila on an acting exercise in theatre school in which she was a lioness.
[15:18] Hysterical Literature, a series that Lila think is probably the sexiest thing she’s ever seen on camera. Particularly this one. With Stoya. (A friend of Madison’s, who participated in the Friday night talkback in the backyard, after Reveal All Fear Nothing.
Hysterical Literature: Session One: Stoya (Official)
Support literature, purchase the book: http://amzn.to/M4MkyY Stoya visits the studio and reads from “Necrophilia Variations” by Supervert. Directed by Clayton Cubitt. Subtitles available (CC) in French and Brazilian Portuguese. Watch other videos in the series, read essays from the participants and writers, and answers to frequently asked questions: http://hystericalliterature.com Hysterical Literature is a video art series by NYC-based photographer and filmmaker Clayton Cubitt.
Phew.
[15:24] Lila appreciates Stoya’s essay in the book Coming Out Like a Porn Star, about the multiple levels of coming out to her grandmother. (Stoya, her stage name, is an abbreviation of her grandmother’s last name!)
[15:47] Lila describes the Hysterical Literature project.
[16:18]
Lila: Then there’s somebody under — an assistant — under the table with a Hitachi Magic Wand with the instruction— which I saw you have in your show (Lila giggles, then, softly) I’ve never used one.
Madison: Oh my gosh, whaaat?!
Lila: (tiny, high-pitched voice) I know!
Madison: You should do it right now!
Lila: I should do it right now?
Madison: Is there one around?
Lila: He— [re: Kenneth Play] I mean, he has everything, but. He might have it with him. I don’t know.
Madison: Oh my goodness. (Lila giggles airily) Well, I wish I had brought mine! Now! I have it over at Andrew’s. [Sparksfire, co-founder of Hacienda Villa, and Madison’s host while she works on the Manhattan debut of Reveal All.]
Lila: Ugg. (laughs) Uhhhhh!
Madison: Oh my goodness!
Lila: Oh my goodness.
Madison: We have gotta fix that!
Lila: Okay, okay! (lowering her voice) I don’t usually like vibration, ‘cause I find it to be, um, too much. So I’ve never found a vibrator that I felt like, was the right amount, of—
Madison: Well it’s a lot. Definitely. However, with the Hitachi, you can even do it over clothes—
Lila: I might.
Madison: — because it’s—
Lila: Yeah.
Madison: And sometimes people, even put a pillow there, to buffer some, as well.
Lila: Between the hitachi and the pussy?
Madison: Yeah. . . yeah.
Lila: That sounds like a really good idea for me.
Madison: For just starting out.
Lila: … and then I could hump it.
Madison: Mmhm, exACTly!
[17:30]
Madison: And you don’t have to put it directly, on the clitoris.
Lila: Sure.
Madison: You can put it around.
Lila: Around.
Madison: Just even, like above, like I like to stimulate my g-spot externally with the hitachi, right above the mons.
g-spot (noun) = found inside those with a vagina, the internal clitoris, also known as the urethral sponge or Skene’s gland, a ridged protrusion from the anterior wall of the vagina, often stimulated by two inserted fingers, palm up (typically the pointer and middle finger) making a “come hither” motion.
“come hither” motion (noun) = a gesture created by turning the palm face-up and curving the pointer and middle finger, sensuously and repeatedly towards one’s body, beckoning. Used to stimulate the g-spot in those with a vagina, when the vagina-owner is supine (belly-up). If they are prone (belly-down) then the same motion performed to stimulate the g-spot is dubbed “go there,” because of how the gesture resembles that suggestion when the palm is facing down.
mons (noun) [abbreviation for mons pubis] = the little mound of tissue that cushions the pubic symphysis of the pubic bones and lies beneath the pubic triangle. Dubbed the mons Venus, or mound of Venus, when referring to the more prominent mound on those with a vulva.
Madison: And then go to the side of the labia, like, ‘cause if you—
Lila: Yeah…
Madison: If you put it all in, in one spot for too long, you like, burn your pussy.
[17:59]
Lila: Oh and I really like pressure, on the pubic mound— I realized. (Madison mmhm’s) And not a lot of lovers do that.
Madison: Mmm, I love that too! I love when the heel of the hand is—
Lila: Yeaaaah!
Madison: Ahhhg! I love that.
Lila: It feels so good—
Madison: It does!
Lila: — so comforting, and so sexy—
Lila: — at the same time. Madison: Yess!
Lila: And it’s a nice broad stimulus—
Lila: — broad pressure. Madison: Yessss.
Lila: The only time I’ve ever been able to have, multiple orgasms, one right after the other, was in continuing to stimulate very slowly, by doing that (Madison mm’s) heel-of-the-hand pressure down (Madison mmhm’s) on the pubic mound, and then, kind of working my way very very slowly back to being able to touch my clitoris again.
horizontal with Madison Young in Kenneth Play’s bedroom. Hacienda Villa. Bushwick, Brooklyn. May 2018
[18:39] Lila tells a bit more about “Hysterical Literature.”
[19:30]
Madison: I was trying to make the words heard and to project it out, and then, eventually it become so intense, you— see it in the body and you see it in the face, and then it becomes, part of the, (forcefully) using! The words! Oh! My! God! Get! Things! Done! (Lila laughs) Just like that.
[20:15] Lila reads a passage of Madison’s memoir back to her. This excerpt is about submission.
[25:36]
Lila: I love that in that little passage you speak about, something that I find to be the most beautiful part of BDSM, which is the aftercare (Madison mm’s) and knowing lik— having embedded in the experience, the future experience of the aftercare.
Madison: Mmhmm. Yeah. The scene doesn’t end when the ropes come off. (pause) What kind of aftercare do you like?
Lila: I like, water, and, um, one of my favorite sensations is very very light fingertips (Madison mm’s) and that is extremely soothing to me, also reminds me of my childhood when I used to ask for it, on my back, to go to sleep… (Madison mmhm’s) and cuddling and then, just like smooth warm enveloping palms and chests and arms.
Madison: Mm. I like that too. An— water is definitely a—
Lila: (giggling) Water!
Madison: — nice bit of aftercare. I like that. And I like my hair being, (Lila mm’s) kind of stroked.
Lila: Ohh! There’s a Brazilian word — I’m half Brazilian — just for affection that is done on the head. (Madison mm’s) It’s called cafune.
Madison: Awww. Cafune…
[27:33] Lila’s rainbow unicorn bondage scene.
[37:00] How does Madison prepare for a porn scene? [Hint: Robes play a part. You see? Robes are key. Also, stretching, meditation.]
[40:15] Is there a difference between the way that Madison prepares for a porn scene and the way that she prepares to perform her live one-woman play, Reveal All Fear Nothing?
[42:22] Lila on immersive theatre.
Lila: Which is why I love live theatre so much, and miss it—
Madison: Definitely.
Lila as Piper Pilfer in Empire Travel Agency. Photo credit to castmate Nicole Golden.
Lila: The last thing I did was this immersive theatre show called Empire Travel Agency (Madison mm’s) with Woodshed Collective, where, it was an experience for four audience members at a time.
Madison: Wow!
Lila: Because that’s how many could fit in the car with one of the actors. (Madison uhhuhs) And so, they were, shuttled around between all these different spaces. (Madison uhhuhs) They arrived someplace, they were sort of, kind of kidnapped in a way, (Madison uhhuhs) like, taken along. They got in a car, twice, with two different actors, they got on the subway once, they went to all of these different … sets (Madison uhhuhs) around lower Manhattan, and they— the experience that a lot of audience members told me that they had was: “Is he in it? Are they in on it?” And they would start making these connections to things in life that were just happening on the street (Madison mmhm’s) that could be seen as theatrical—
Madison: Riiight. Wow.
Lila: — and not knowing, not being able to necessarily discern which per— you know, being so sure that that person was an actor, and (Madison uhhuhs) then having someone else come up and pick you up, and it wasn’t them! But you were so sure that it was them! Which I think is such a neat experience. And … the l— liveliness—
Madison: Yeah.
Lila: — in having different people come to you, and being able to play with your script, in such a way that you would go away from it, and then you would have to figure out, how am I gonna maneuver back to it?
Madison: Right.
Lila: How will I guide us back towards, the words I know I’m supposed to say—
Madison: Right.
Lila: And yet still be playing with these people—
Madison: Yeah…
Lila: — who are giving me something different—
Madison: Yeah!
Lila: — than the people who came in before! And I had a one-on-one, where I would: I invited these people into my office, I was Piper Pilfer, (Madison uhhuhs) who was an art dealer, and I was at this art gallery, that was mine, (Madison uhhuhs) and so I invited the, the audience members, as well as one, one actor, into my office, and gave them a little, a little scene, a little spiel, and then I would invite them out, with a nice gesture, and, I would put my hand on one of their shoulders (Madison uhhuhs) and keep them back. (Madison uhhuhs) And so everybody else left and I was entrusting this person — they were supposed to bid for me at a secret auction later, and so I entrusted them with this art piece that they were supposed to use to bid at this auction.
Madison: Oh wow.
Lila: And that person, gave me each time a different, response. (Madison uhhuhs) Right, sometimes they were a little skeptical— I had, I had a, a famous TV actress at one point, and she was kind of like, (nasally skeptical) “Oka-aay.” (both laugh) And, and I had people who just were like, “Yeh, yeah!” (Madison uhhuhs) And they wanted to play and they wanted to banter. I had one guy who was really, kind of offensive and gross and it was interesting because, heee. His father-in-law insisted on staying— I was keeping the young one back and his father-in-law insisted on staying with him. Which at first, kind of annoyed me because it’s supposed to be a one-on-one, and then I was like, “Fine, I’ll take two of you.” (Madison uhhuhs) And, you know, sat them down and gave the spiel, and, it was kind of a leading line, where I would say, “And so, you know, if you… make this work out for me,” or whatever the line was. Dot dot dot… And the young one said, “You’ll give us sexual favors; I get it.”
38. reveal all fear nothing: horizontal with a feminist pornographer
This is a special edition of horizontal, the podcast that takes you into my bed and lets your ears watch as I unzip intimate conversations. horizontal aims to dispel shame, diminish loneliness, and cultivate connections. This conversation was recorded last week at Hacienda Villa, the intentional community and center for sex education in Bushwick, Brooklyn: my home.
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