This is Kelsey Grant
118. probably the slowest sex i’ve ever had: horizontal with radical self love (3 of 4)
Hello horizontal lover. horizontal is the podcast about intimacy of all kinds, recorded while lying down. You’re listening to Season 4, my Season of Experiments. During this season, I’m playing with form and format, length and structure, context and content. I’ll be including mash-ups with other podcasts, themed episodes, crossovers, and shows with segments, among other things.
Kelsey: I could feel things for the first time, with a lot more depth than I had, up until that point.
Lila: Emotionally you mean?
Kelsey: Yep, emotionally. But also physically. Like I could feel, internally, inside of my pussy more than I ever had before. And that was intriguing, but also frightening. I also noticed changes in terms of how… wet my body would get. And normally, in my experience, getting wet was not really a problem. And now, like, initially going off the pill like, it really drastically shifted that, and I couldn’t get wet as easily.
Lila: Whoa.
Kelsey: And my arousal was different. And I had to re-learn, like, what arouses my body now that I’m more available in my body. Because I could now feel myself more than ever before.
Lila: And when you re-learned, what had shifted?
Kelsey: This sense of wanting something more… from a relationship. Wanting something more from my sexual experiences. Almost like this desire for sacred union was starting to be birthed, and in order for that sacred union, I needed to feel like, the heart connection, and the compatibility of our life path. Because my life path was diverging in this more spiritual direction, and his was not. That discord, for me, played such a role in my body’s ability to be aroused and turned-on. So I started to see like, ohh. There’s more vetting for alignment now that I’m gonna have to explore, in terms of long-term partnership. That had never been on my radar before! And that came front and center. And also this desire, for more oral sex. We didn’t really have a lot of oral sex in that relationship. Like, he wasn’t really into it, I wasn’t really into it. And after I went off the pill, I started noticing my desire, expanding. Ooo, I really wanna try these things and explore in these other arenas that we haven’t been for the last three years of our relationship. The last year and a bit was when I was off the pill and I started to notice, Oh, there’s more that I’m craving here, and there’s a depth that I want to be penetrated by, in terms of the emotional connection and the spiritual connection, that can be available through sexual union.
***
Lila: You’ve had it with that partner, and so… you know what it feels like. So you kind of know the kind of stimulation that you’re seeking. I’m not sure I even know what it’s like for my cervix to be stimulated. A lot of times when people go really deep, depending on their shape, it hurts.
Kelsey: Yeah. That’s very true. And with that partner, he had a very big cock. And a lot of the time like, the angle that we would be at, it would hurt. And so, we had to really play around in the angles that we were using. It was a specific angle and it wasn’t, it wasn’t quite missionary, but it was very similar to a missionary position, where my hips were slightly elevated, but not too high. And, my hips felt, you know, safe to open, and so my knees were supported, so there was no strain on my hips, and it was a very very slow and steady and gentle… opening. The— probably the slowest that I’ve ever had sex in my entire life. It was like this micro-movement. And it was through the micro-movement that there was an opening energetically with my cervix.
Hello horizontal lover. horizontal is the podcast about intimacy of all kinds, recorded while lying down.
You’re listening to Season 4, my Season of Experiments. During this season, I’m playing with form and format, length and structure, context and content. I’ll be including mash-ups with other podcasts, themed episodes, crossovers, and shows with segments, among other things. Unlike the first three seasons, most of Season 4 will be recorded remotely, so I’m often horizontal across the world from my guest … which is a grand experiment in itself.
This is part three of my 4-episode arc with Kelsey Grant: Love Educator, boundaries expert, writer, singer, witchy woman, & creatrix of various kinds… known on Instagram as @radicalselflove.
Usually, my horizontal recording sessions are between 3 and 5 hours long, and divided into two parts (if 3 hours) or 4 parts (if 5). The first installment — or the first two installments — are available in all the podcast places for all horizontalists, and the second half — or the latter two parts — are available exclusively to patrons of the horizontal arts. One of my experiments with Kelsey’s arc is to divvy things up a bit differently. In this case, my first and third episode with Kelsey (which are episodes 116, and this installment, 118) are available to everyone, and the second and fourth are available exclusively to patrons.
There’s also a bonus sort of grab bag stream-of-consciousness episode we recorded that I’m considering releasing in full as a bonus episode for patrons, or, also in two parts. To be determined, horizontal lovers…
For access to The Full Horizontal, which includes all the part twos (or in this case, twos and fours) going back to the beginning, become a patron of the horizontal arts:
When you become a patron, I also send you a personal thank-you video (with a Happy Dance!).
In part one, episode 116. planet friendship (my first episode that’s almost entirely about platonic intimacy) we talked about her nourishing female friend pod and 6-month vetting process, mother-wounds, getting kicked out of the house, emotional release, resisting the codependent parental undertow, & how Kelsey and her best friend heal by re-parenting each other.
In part two, episode 117. an emotionally safe connection (a patron-only episode), we discussed my best friend Marghe, inner circle friendship, virtual and in-person connection, the ability to hold simultaneous conflicting emotions, Harry Potter and nerding out, & the masterful, loving way Kelsey expressed her boundaries to me.
In this, part three, we deliberately got horizontal to talk about sex. We explored:
- cervical, g-spot, and clitoral orgasms
- devotional presence and the lack thereof
- fantasizing about women during sex
- self-reverence
- & Kelsey’s sexual evolution, from…
- getting kicked out of the house
- to her Huntress phase
- to exploration with a virgin
- to going off the pill
- to kink
- to cervical orgasms & betrayal
- to self-exploration & crystal dildos
In next week’s patrons-only episode with Kelsey, we delve into sex that disturbs the neighbors, woundmates and heartmates, the runner & the chaser, dating with intention, the fantasy of her former relationship, overfunctioning & underfunctioning, losing sexual desire, and whether woundmate relationships can become healthy.
If you’d like one-on-one guidance from me on your intimate struggles, I offer Personal Intimacy Roadmap Sessions: 60-minute sessions with a takeaway plan. In other words, sex-positive, judgement-free, compassionate support for what ails you in the realm of sex, love, & relationships of all kinds.
To schedule, email lila@horizontalwithlila.com. If you desire ongoing support of your intimate growth, join the $100 Patreon tier on Patreon.com/horizontalwithlila, and receive a 30-minute coaching session every month!
Until next time, may you have someone to love, something to do, and something to look forward to. I’m looking forward to the Wednesday night public speaking club I’ve been attending, and getting put on the spot.
Thank you for listening. Thank you for getting horizontal.
Now come lie down with us again, in Canggu, Bali, Indonesia, and Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Links to Useful Things:
Kelsey’s @radicalselflove Instagram account
Self-Love Service, Self Study Class, Heal Your Heartbreak course links
The Sunday Night Sex Show with Sue, the radio show that taught Kelsey about pleasure
Show Notes:
(if you quote from this resource, please link to the post or the horizontal Patreon!)
[6:04] What Kelsey learned about sex growing up
[6:37] The Sunday night sex ed video series Kelsey was obliged to watch
[7:34] The sex stereotype from Kelsey’s Dad’s coin collector plaque
[8:38 – 13:02] The 7th grade condom demonstration at Kelsey’s Catholic school & why it might be so uncomfortable for kids to talk with their parents about sex
Kelsey: In a Catholic school, we definitely weren’t getting a lot of sex education. We did have a condom demonstration, in 7th grade.
Lila: Mmhm. Banana?
Kelsey: On a banana. Yep! Which in a Catholic school is like, really unheard of!
Lila: That is! That is impressive.
Kelsey: Mmhm! Our friend’s mom really advocated for it. And she came in and did the sex education class — where she went to every single classroom and showed them how to use a condom.
Lila: Was your friend embarrassed, do you think?
Kelsey: (giggling) Very! She had a son who was in my grade but she also had a son who was in my brother’s grade. So both of them were just mortified that this was happening and their mom was the sex educator for our junior high school.
Lila: (both giggle) Oh wow. There’s that show, Sex Education, on Netflix, right, where the boy’s the son of a Sexologist, and he is just— but then he turns into, kind of an armchair sexologist at school.
Kelsey: So good!
Lila: But consistent mortification is a theme. […] Because you’re not supposed to have that — there’s not supposed to be ease there, right? In the cultural narrative, it isn’t comfortable to talk with your parents about sex.
Kelsey: Yeah it’s one of those very awkward situations, and I know I would get so embarrassed every time my mom would pull out one of the VHS’s for Sunday evening (laughing) education. I’m like, Ogghhh! I don’t wanna talk about this with my mom! You know but, to talk to my friend’s moms, that was totally fine. Like I had no weird feelings about talking and asking questions to different adults— it was just my parents and f—
Lila: Your adults?
Kelsey: Yeah, my adults. And I feel like that’s pretty normal. At least in the women that I am close with and also all the women that I’ve worked with, that seems to be a very common experience.
Lila: But why does it have to be that way? I think it’s— it is quite universal, and it’s joked about all the time, and, you know, there’s tons of scenes in movies where the child is absolutely mortified because the parent is talking about sex, but: Why should it be that way? That’s how we got here… right?
Kelsey: Mmhm, mmhm! And, I imagine, a lot of it has to do with our own sexual shame and any trauma that we might be storing and as— I’m obviously not a parent, but I could imagine that if I hadn’t met those parts of myself and really welcomed them home, that I might have a sense of feeling weird about talking about my sexuality with my child, and then, if I had really gone through that integration and it felt safe in my body, and I was really in a space of expanded, anchored pleasure in that arena of my life that it would feel, more normal and natural to have these discussions. I think it’s the shame that really distorts it, and brings up those feelings of embarrassment. Because how parents talk about sex can also be really awkward sometimes, and, instead of Hey, this is just a normal part of being human! Your body is designed to feel pleasurable, and, we’re just gonna teach ya how that works and teach appropriate boundaries and consent and all of these really important things. And if the family system itself isn’t operating from that place of shame, I think it is just more normalized, and there is freedom to ask questions without those strange feelings or, feeling embarrassed and kind of overloaded by that conversation.
[13:10 – 16:39] Kelsey on learning about pleasure from The Sunday Night Sex Show with Sue & the concept that pleasure has no expiration date
Kelsey: There was zero pleasure in those VHS tapes. I learned about it— in Canada there used to be this radio show on Sunday nights— I guess Sunday night was just the night!
Lila: Sex night!
Kelsey: It was called The Sunday Night Sex Show with Sue, and, it was on one of the radio stations, and so after I would go to bed, I would turn on my radio really really quietly, and I would listen to The Sex Show with Sue. And I would listen to her answer caller’s questions and talk about sex in this really open and pleasure-filled way, like, she was all about the pleasure. And all about proper education, and bringing pleasure and sex out of the shadow. I don’t know that she would have used those exact words, but that’s how it makes sense to me now, looking back on it, that she was such a sex-positive role model. And that’s really where, I started to, learn, about sex and pleasure, from this very empowered place. Although, it was also hidden, because I had to listen to it in secret.
Lila: This is Canadian radio?
Kelsey: Yes. (giggles)
Lila: Because I have never heard of The Sex Show with Sue.
Kelsey: Yeah, it was in… I guess it was the 90s that I would’ve been listening to this. It was about grade 7 that I started listening to that radio show. […] I think that’s around like thirteen. Twelve or thirteen. She was on the air for a long time and I think the only reason she’s probably not on the air is because she maybe retired. She was an older lady, and that was also really cool to me, I’m like, Here’s like this granny, talking about sex and pleasure and like, this is amazing! And it really anchored in my psyche that, even as we age, even as we develop, we can still have pleasure. Pleasure isn’t capped at our 20s or 30s or 40s, like: here’s a woman, and at the time, she was in her late 60s, early 70s—
Lila: Wow, amazing.
Kelsey: And she was still talking about pleasure. And sex. From such an empowered place.
Lila: Thank goodness, right! Because that’s another huge butt of jokes, is people having sex when they’re older. But hello! Do you want to stop having sex?
Kelsey: No! (giggles softly)
Lila: Don’t you want pleasure to continue throughout your life? Why should that be so odd or so funny?
Kelsey: Right!
Lila: There’s a huge renaissance of sexual expression in nursing homes, and that is considered hilarious, and ridiculous. But, why not! There’s all this leisure time. There’s probably less worry about society’s bullshit. (laughs) There’s just, hopefully the intention to enjoy the rest of your days, and what could be more enjoyable but to focus on sensuality and pleasure? I mean, come on!
Kelsey: Yesss. That is the kind of nursing home I want to be put in when I’m in my later days, thank you very much! Sign me up!
[16:40 – 17:44] Kelsey on being a sensualist
[17:45 – 18:57] Lila rhapsodizes on her love of sensation play
Lila: My favorite kink is sensation play, and an alternating series of surprises — a dance with tempo and duration and pressure. I love to experience the pinwheel, and then a soft caress, and then my hair being pulled, and then, a spill of hot wax, and then, a squeezing of my butt, and then you know, a scratching. I just love to have a buffet of sensory experiences. (Kelsey giggles) That is my favorite favorite. That is the way in which I am the most— the most kinky, really. So I’m interested in impact play, but not of its own, not just necessarily for the impact, you know, after the spanking, I want other things! I want other sensations!
Kelsey: Mmhm. Mmhm. Mmhm. Mphh! My body’s just getting fully turned-on listening to your turn-on.
[19:34 – 20:30] Lila’s disdain for absentminded touch
[20:31 – 24:24] Devotional presence, and the lack thereof
Lila: I want to be touched with presence.
Kelsey: Yes! That devotional presence is a really important precursor for me, too. And I know the exact sensation that you are talking about, like, it’s almost like my arm can feel being rubbed raw from that lack of intention. And it’s just like, it’s like the same spot, over and over and over again, I’m like Stop it!
Lila: Yes! Yeah! Get off! Get off.
Kelsey: Stop! (both laugh) Hurts! Enough!
Lila: Yeah! It’s almost itchy and it’s almost chafing and it’s like, ugch.
Kelsey: It’s the opposite of what feels pleasurable to me, in my body, and that presence piece I think is so key, like, because I do have a strong intuitive energy, like I can feel when someone disconnects. I can feel when they’re not there with me. And, that is not a turn-on for me at all. If I’m gonna go into this domain with you, I need to feel you anchored in yourself, and I need to feel the devotional presence— ‘cause that’s what I’m bringing. I’m bringing my embodiment. I’m bringing my full presence, my full devotion. To not be met in that feels… gutting. To be honest. And really does not turn on my system. And my pussy’s got to the point where she’s like, Yeah, no entry. Like she’ll just deny entry! If there is not that devotional presence. She’s like, Nope. We’re not playing today. I’m like, Oh, alright. We’re allies here. This is fantastic. But it’s taken a while to get to that point of reverence and connection and attunement within my own system. And knowing that that’s what, I require! From a partner. An important key to my turn-on. It has been a process through my sexual reclamation and exploration. But to really have someone be anchored in their body, and fully present with me is something that completely revs my system, turns me on, because that’s the level of intentionality that I’m bringing, to the mix. And to me, sexual energy is so sacred in so many ways, and, it requires that reverence, of being present. There’s so many beautiful elements to explore, and like, cosmic orgasms, and all of the sensation play— all of that is available when there is this devotional reverence, and it’s being met from all people involved. And so for me that has been such a huge piece and, my pussy is like my biggest ally right now! She’s like, If I don’t feel that devotional presence, this is a no-fly zone. Like don’t even try, like, I feel like it’s […] Lord of the Rings, where it’s like, crashing the staff on the ground, being like “You shall not pass!” […] That is what my pussy does now, when there is no reverence, when there is no devotional presence.
[24:24] Can Kelsey tell when someone is fantasizing during sex?
[25:43 – 26:29]
Kelsey: I want to be penetrated by this cosmic energy of sacred reverence and presence. And that can’t happen if he is not fully in the experience with me.
[26:30 – 29:52] Lila & Kelsey on fantasizing about women during sex, and what that might mean
[30:08 – 33:39] Lila on choosing fast food sex lately
[33:39 – 37:38] How does Kelsey define devotional presence?
Kelsey: The first place the devotional presence starts is in the relationship to self. So if I notice that someone isn’t really present with their full experience of themself, there’s something in my system that just knows that the level of presence that they can bring to themselves, to their internal world, to their shadow, to all that is, within them… is the same (to a degree) is the same level of devotional presence that they can bring inside a sexual union, or a relational union. And, for me it, it requires the ability to connect to those sticky, gnarly parts of who we are, and bring them forward, out of the shadow, and into the light. So if I know that someone has the capacity to do that, and they show that through their actions, there’s a humility there. There’s the capacity to take accountability and responsibility for themselves and their life. There is a reverence to their own experience of being human, that is being embodied. And, to me, that reverence of their own relationship to self, then gets translated into: how present can they be with me? And so, in sexual union, it’s being attuned-enough to my energy field so that, when there are those micro-shifts, that they don’t go unnoticed. It’s that moment of like, Hey, where’d you go? And not from a shaming place but just like, Hey, just checking in. Does this feel good? I’m sensing that maybe you’d like something else. And, you know, that goes both ways. So being able to read each other’s energy, in the bedroom, and notice those subtle shifts that happen when we go from connection to disconnection, connection to disconnection. ‘Cause we’re not gonna stay totally present, totally connected 100% of the time. I wouldn’t even put that standard on myself or another person.
Lila: Nooo! Exhausting; impossible.
Kelsey: Yeah, it’s impossible. But it’s moreso like flowing with that experience and not stepping over it. And saying, Hey, I just noticed a shift here. Do we need to try something else? Do you wanna go into the bubble bath like, let’s play! So it becomes more of an exploration. And I find, like if I think about children, like, how present they are on a playground. They’re exploring the full range of that playground because they’re present. If they’re not present, they’re gonna fall off the jungle gym. That same level of presence, if we bring it into the bedroom, we have now unlocked this storehouse of play, and pleasure, that we can really get into the nuance, the nitty-gritty like, these corners of our sexual pleasure and desire that maybe we’ve never felt safe enough to unlock. And for me, when someone is able to tune in to those subtle energy shifts with me, then my body gets cued like, Hey, this person can hold down the fort. This person is attuned enough that they can root. They can be a safe place for you to melt and surrender into. And vice versa; that works on both sides, so, it’s a nice trust-builder so that we have trust that gets activated, so that surrender, and deeper pleasure, and deeper desire, can really start to come to the surface.
[37:38 – 39:47] How does Kelsey regard self-reverence?
[41:33]
Kelsey: Yeah that whole adage of like you have to love yourself before you can love another person, is not actually true. Because a lot of us are capable of loving other people but we don’t love ourselves.
[41:54] Kelsey on growing self-love through relationships
Kelsey: At least for me, some of my greatest learning of self-love has come through relationships. Whether those were friendships, or, in family, or in romantic partnership. I’ve even had lovers, who I wasn’t, you know, in a committed relationship with, but, those lovers, the way that they were able to show up for whatever pocket of time we spent together, was so deeply healing. And, that presence was able to help me unlock deeper layers, so, we could get stuck in a bind in a loop forever, debating which comes first, the chicken or the egg, but they’re both important. […] I was obviously loving people, before I stepped into really putting a focus on self-love. One hundred percent, I was loving people. And, the level of depth that I can now go to, has shifted. So the depth of that love has shifted, the more reverence I generate within myself, towards myself.
[44:06 – 47:40] Kelsey describes the difference in depth, vulnerability, and getting to know the human behind the representative
[47:43] Kelsey tells a story of her sexual evolution, including:
[48:36] Her huntress phase / “I’m not leaving here without an orgasm.”
[49:18] Learning how to stimulate her clit in order to orgasm during penetration with her first sexual partner
[51:51] How the relationship with her first lover was tainted by getting kicked out of her house the first time they had sex
[54:34] Using sex to avoid feeling the other feels
[55:38] Dating a virgin at university, and exploring with great sexual curiosity
[56:57] Her first and only squirting experience
[57:57] How a partner changed the way she felt about the expression “making love”
[58:44] The chemistry in her 4-year relationship, and how things shifted when she went off the pill
[1:00:17]
Kelsey: I could feel things for the first time, with a lot more depth than I had, up until that point.
Lila: Emotionally you mean?
Kelsey: Yep, emotionally. But also physically. Like I could feel, internally, inside of my pussy more than I ever had before. And that was intriguing, but also frightening. I also noticed changes in terms of how… wet my body would get. And normally, in my experience, getting wet was not really a problem. And now, like, initially going off the pill like, it really drastically shifted that, and I couldn’t get wet as easily.
Lila: Whoa.
Kelsey: And my arousal was different. And I had to re-learn, like, what arouses my body now that I’m more available in my body. Because I could now feel myself more than ever before.
Lila: And when you re-learned, what had shifted?
Kelsey: This sense of wanting something more… from a relationship. Wanting something more from my sexual experiences. Almost like this desire for sacred union was starting to be birthed, and in order for that sacred union, I needed to feel like, the heart connection, and the compatibility of our life path. Because my life path was diverging in this more spiritual direction, and his was not. That discord, for me, played such a role in my body’s ability to be aroused and turned-on. So I started to see like, ohh. There’s more vetting for alignment now that I’m gonna have to explore, in terms of long-term partnership. That had never been on my radar before! And that came front and center. And also this desire, for more oral sex. We didn’t really have a lot of oral sex in that relationship. Like, he wasn’t really into it, I wasn’t really into it. And after I went off the pill, I started noticing my desire, expanding. Ooo, I really wanna try these things and explore in these other arenas that we haven’t been for the last three years of our relationship. The last year and a bit was when I was off the pill and I started to notice, Oh, there’s more that I’m craving here, and there’s a depth that I want to be penetrated by, in terms of the emotional connection and the spiritual connection, that can be available through sexual union.
[1:03:19] The most insane sex of Kelsey’s life
[1:06:28] When she began to explore her kink blueprint
[1:07:16] The hypnotic connection that lead to her first internal orgasm without external clitoral stimulation
[1:07:41] The slow and sticky unfolding that lead to a cervical orgasm
[1:08:10] The difference in sensations between clitoral, g-spot, and cervical orgasms
[1:09:25] How her deepest opening became collapsed with another betrayal
Kelsey: With the cervical orgasm, it was the most vulnerable I have ever felt. And, it’s been a challenge to get back to that place with any other partner.
[1:10:36] A mothering dynamic Kelsey had with her most recent partner, and how it didn’t allow the temptress out
[1:11:26] Exploring sexual expression, her with her first
[1:12:20] Giving herself her first g-spot orgasm with the obsidian wand (without clitorial stimulation)
[1:14:16] Now her goal is nipple orgasms (the clit suction toy might be of assistance)
[1:15:10]
Kelsey: In my last relationship — this is funny — I had this desire for him to suck on my nipples. But we did a podcast once, where we were talking about overfunctioning and underfunctioning, and he came up with the title, like, “sucking from the mommy nipple,” which is what an underfunctioner does in a relationship, and after he came up with that I’m like, Fuck, like, I can’t ask him to suck on my nipples right now, because he’s underfunctioning, and then it becomes this more maternal thing than it is a sexual thing.
[1:17:54] The serpent-like glass wand Kelsey ordered to explore cervical orgasms on her own
[1:19:44]
Lila: You’ve had it with that partner, and so… you know what it feels like. So you kind of know the kind of stimulation that you’re seeking. I’m not sure I even know what it’s like for my cervix to be stimulated. A lot of times when people go really deep, depending on their shape, it hurts.
Kelsey: Yeah. That’s very true. And with that partner, he had a very big cock. And a lot of the time like, the angle that we would be at, it would hurt. And so, we had to really play around in the angles that we were using. It was a specific angle and it wasn’t, it wasn’t quite missionary, but it was very similar to a missionary position, where my hips were slightly elevated, but not too high. And, my hips felt, you know, safe to open, and so my knees were supported, so there was no strain on my hips, and it was a very very slow and steady and gentle… opening. The— probably the slowest that I’ve ever had sex in my entire life. It was like this micro-movement. And it was through the micro-movement that there was an opening energetically with my cervix.
118. probably the slowest sex i’ve ever had: horizontal with radical self love (3 of 4)
Hello horizontal lover. horizontal is the podcast about intimacy of all kinds, recorded while lying down. You’re listening to Season 4, my Season of Experiments. During this season, I’m playing with form and format, length and structure, context and content. I’ll be including mash-ups with other podcasts, themed episodes, crossovers, and shows with segments, among other things.
