Case in point.
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Kelsey: Those friends that don’t try and maneuver you through what you’re experiencing, they can just hold it. They don’t need to get you to happy. Because, they’ve met their own shadow; they’ve met their own emotional depth. So they can sit with it. And I think that is one of the definitive factors of […] an emotionally safe connection. Has someone met their depth so that they can hold yours?
Lila: And it’s such a counter-intuitive thing, isn’t it, that when you show up, without trying to fix or change, things often change! And, get better!
Kelsey: That’s the irony! Big cosmic joke!
Lila: But you have to literally be willing to show up without trying to push it […] in the direction that you want it. Because that’s felt, right? That’s felt by the person. And that’s felt, and I think translated in, in my body as, Oh, you actually don’t wanna be with me. You would prefer that I were in a different way. And that does not feel safe, to let the guards down, give the watchdogs the time off so I can just… be.
Kelsey: […] I think we just identified what is the defining factor of a tier one, inner circle friendship. They have to have this ability. It’s almost like this non-agenda. Except, if there was an agenda, the agenda is to really just hold space for what is actually needed in that moment.
Lila: Yeah! The agenda is to love you. And that’s the best way to do it.
My dear patron, favorite horizontal lover…
This is part two of my 4-episode arc with Kelsey Grant: Love Educator, boundaries expert, writer, singer, witchy woman, & creatrix of various kinds.
In part one, episode 116. planet friendship, we talked about nourishing female friendship, her 6-month vetting process, mother-wounds, getting kicked out of the house, emotional release, swamping, resisting the codependent parental undertow, & how Kelsey and her best friend heal by re-parenting each other.
In this, part two, we discuss:
- my best friend Margherita
- the defining factor of an inner circle friendship
- virtual and in-person connection
- the ability to hold simultaneous conflicting emotions
- nerding out
- my weekly Escapist Animated Movie Night
- & the masterful, loving way Kelsey expressed her boundaries with me (which we both agree, marks the beginning of a beautiful friendship)
Next week’s episode with Kelsey is our sex episode, all about masturbation, orgasms, sexual presence, and woundmates (as opposed to heartmates).
Thank you for listening. Thank you for getting horizontal the way you do.
Now come lie down with us again in Uluwatu, Bali, Indonesia, and Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Links to Useful Things:
Kelsey’s @radicalselflove Instagram account
Self-Love Service, Self Study Class, Heal Your Heartbreak course links
Prentis Hemphill’s quote: “Boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and me simultaneously.”
Show Notes:
(if you quote from this resource, link to the post or the horizontal Patreon!)
[1:44 – 4:25] How Kelsey and her best friend help to re-parent each other
[3:24] How their friendship provides a healthy model for other relationships.
Kelsey: We have these codes with each other, like we have an S.O.S., so if either of us S.O.S.’s the other person, we kind of drop what we’re doing and we attend to each other. And we also have an agreement that you only use that if it’s legitimately an S.O.S. — so there’s just so many agreements that are out in the open about our friendship that create so much safety. And, I think, like going into the sexual domain— that same degree of care and consideration and context and agreements, is really helpful. To create a really beautiful and expansive but also wild experience, where you can unleash all of those parts of you and they all belong. So I can see so many tethers to other parts of my life that, just the experience of me and her has helped heal all of these other arenas of my human experience.
[4:30 – 8:06] Lila on a depressive episode / cocooning in November, and being met by her closest friend
[8:09 – 10:13] On the defining factor of a tier one inner circle friendship.
[10:18] Kelsey on discerning whether someone has actually met their depth, or is wearing an effective mask
Kelsey: I don’t know about you but I’ve gotten really good at sniffing those people out, like fast! Of like, would they be able to hold my depth? And, if they can’t hold my depth, they’re not getting access to me! This is why I have to do, like a longer vetting process with someone, because we live in this world where there’s so many fucking masks all the time, and people know how to perform the role. But they don’t know how to embody the role. And so I have to be able to filter out the ones that are just performing, and then the ones that are actually embodied, and can hold that safe, sacred space.
[10:59 – 13:02] Lila on judgement, discernment, and struggling to find “her people” here
Lila: This is why I’m struggling so much here, because, you articulated what I’m seeking, and what I’ve been saying is a less sophisticated way but I’ve been saying, “I haven’t found my people here. I haven’t found my people.” That’s what I mean when I say “my people.” I used to call it— and I do s— think that I am judgmental. But there is also the gift of my judgmentalness, is that I’m incredibly discerning. And I can tell, whether somebody would be able to do that, is willing to do that, and, to a certain extent, the more we grow in this capacity, I think the less humans are able to do it with us. […] You know, I can feel that this person just wants you to be happy and go surfing, and that’s not necessarily — that doesn’t necessarily magnetize me. I’m so clear about who I want to be close to, and who I don’t! And usually, when I travel or when I go to a place, I at least find several people that I’m like, Oh my gosh, oh my gosh I wanna spend time with you, I love your presence, like Yes! Let’s do this! And the people that I’m connecting with now, in that way, like you, are across the world. And that’s difficult. And I know that… I know that it is my gift, to be able to connect, and if I can’t connect with people across the world, sort of like who can? You know, this is my, this is my zone of genius. And I can. And I can also feel nourished by it. And yet. It is not the same. It is not the same, as having somebody here, who can sit on the veranda with me and watch the sunset. And I… don’t have much of that. And I miss that. I miss that a lot.
[13:03] Kelsey on how nourishing it is to be met in those everyday, human to human moments, and how different it is from virtual connection
[13:38 – 15:19] Kelsey & Lila on virtual connection, and holding simultaneous, and seemingly-opposite truths
Lila: I want to get past my coding of it as: Not As Good. You know, I would love to really truly feel: It’s just different. But honestly I feel that it is different, and it is Not As Good.
Kelsey: And maybe it’s possible that both of those realities can be true. At the same time.
Lila: Yeahhh. I do think the, being able to hold simultaneous, and seemingly-opposite truths is part of our emotional intelligence.
Kelsey: Totally! Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes!
Lila: I’ve been calling it dialectical intelligence, because I can’t find a term that really makes sense to me for it — do you know one?
[15:20 – 16:01] Kelsey on the ability to hold conflicting / opposite emotions
[16:03 – 19:25] Lila & Kelsey nerd out
[18:15]
Lila: I also think “nerd” is what people call someone who cares a ton, about something that they don’t care about. You know but everybody (everybody!) cares a ton about something that other people don’t care about. It’s just different things!
[18:35] What Kelsey nerds out about
Kelsey: Nerding out is one of my favorite things to do. I won’t nerd out about math equations, because that’s not my jam. But if we wanna nerd out about, you know, divine feminine reclamation, or pussy magic, or relationships and love and sex, I can just be immersed in that, forever, and not need to disengage. It doesn’t occur to me as work. And it occurs to me as pleasure, like I just want to keep leaning into it.
[19:26] Lila on her favorite thing to teach: connection games
One of my favorite connection games, which, shall we say… doesn’t exactly translate to Zoom. Image by Valerie Zimmer Photography
[20:18] Kelsey on being able to nerd out with your closest friends
[21:25 – 23:46] Lila’s ritual of Covid-times: Escapist Animated Movie Night
[23:47 – 29:55] The masterful way Kelsey expressed her boundaries to Lila, and how it marks the beginning of a beautiful friendship
[25:19]
Lila: I think one of the main reasons why codependent people are concerned about drawing boundaries is that we are concerned that they will be received as a rejection by the other person. And so, you did so many things in that message: you affirmed how important it was to you to be able to show up for this, because you care about what I’m doing, and what we can co-create. So you affirmed me; you let me know that you wanted to be here, and then you gave me, as you say, “the high quality information” that I needed to love you better. Right? You’re like, This is how I can fully show up. And you also gave me an out. You said “I understand if this isn’t the way that you do things. I understand if this isn’t your vision.” And if that’s the case, then we can do this— you gave me two wonderful options of what would work for you.
[26:20] Prentis Hemphill’s quote: “Boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and me simultaneously.”
TO LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE:
Your patronage helps keep horizontal independent and uncensored, as well as unlocking access to all the part twos, the secret patrons Facebook group, & Intimacy Tips videos (like last month’s “Coping with The Inner Critics”).
