Lemarc & Michael during their grand 2-week wedding on St. Helena!
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Lemarc: Then I had a bit of a flop, and I was like, Why did we even meet? What was the point of this encounter? We are amazing together! This is a connection I’ve never felt before. And now, we’re gonna, say goodbye, and not see each other again. Really! Why did the universe even put us together? Just to— like this is punishment.
Lila: Like dangling paradise and then snatching it away.
Lemarc: And then Michael is very practical so he was like, “But, but why, I mean, maybe we can be together.” And then we agreed to be together and we planned the next six months of our lives, where we agreed that I would move to Sweden, and that we would— we booked flights to see each other every month. Or actually, we didn’t book the flights but we booked the dates where we would fly to see each other every month, before I actually moved to Sweden.
Lila: And this is right after the 24-hour date? And you’re like, That’s it; we’re together?
Lemarc: Yeah.
Lila: We’re doing this. We’re all in.
Lemarc: Yeah.
Lila: (gasp) Wow! Wowww!
Lemarc: Yeah it was a bit crazy. I don’t think I told my friends, because, they would have told me that I’m crazy and that this is stupid, and you don’t just move to another country for someone you only just met.
Lila: Was it an easy decision for you to make?
Lemarc: Yeah. Very. When I think about Michael and I connecting, I think that this was the only connection I’ve ever had — I mean the only romantic connection I’ve ever had — where there was zero doubt. And when there’s zero doubt, there’s freedom to be all in.
My dearest patrons, welcome to part four of my 4-episode arc with Lemarc Thomas, global matchmaker and relationship expert.
In part one, episode 112. broken a few hearts, Lemarc interviewed me as if I were his newest matchmaking client. It’s so revealing. I still have a bit of a vulnerability hangover from it. But I’m also proud to share so much of my tenderness with the world.
In part two, episode 113. other people’s love, I interviewed Lemarc about his modern matchmaking process, and he introduced us to his 4 Steps to Love.
In part three, episode 114. can I sit with you, we delved into Lemarc’s childhood, growing up as an effeminate boy on a very small island, and riffed on themes of belonging.
In this, part four, Lemarc shares the story of his fairy-tale romance with Swedish husband Michael, the journey of how they became the first same-sex couple ever to get married on the island of St. Helena, and thoughts on community, co-living, and the prospect of adoption.
These days, I’m expanding into my role of Intimacy Guide. If you’d like one-on-one support from me on your intimate struggles, I offer Personal Intimacy Roadmap Sessions. These are 60-minute sessions with a takeaway plan (your roadmap)! My intention is to offer sex-positive, judgement-free guidance for what ails you in the realm of sex, love, & relationships of all kinds.
With gratitude for your loving support of the horizontal arts: I invite you, my ardent horizontalists, to take me up on one of three options:
- A full Intimacy Roadmap Session at half of my rate (which makes it $125 instead of $250)
- A free 10-minute sample, or,
- For ongoing calibration of your intimate growth, receive a 30-minute session of presence and/or guidance every month, when you become a patron at the $100/month level.
To schedule a session, email lila@horizontalwithlila.com, and I’ll send over my intake form, so I can best prepare for you.
In next week’s episode, I’ll introduce you to Kelsey Grant, known as @radicalselflove on Instagram. She’s a new friend I am honored to be building connection with, an incisive writer, a love educator, a creatrix of various mediums, and a powerfully tender woman. I have so much to learn from her, and I imagine you will, also.
Until next time: May you have someone to love, something to do, and something to look forward to. Open Mic was cancelled last week and possibly for the foreseeable, so I did not get to perform my poem. Saddest little kitten. But! I intend to include it in an upcoming experimental episode, as suggested by Samia! The form of that episode is percolating… So, this week, I’m looking forward to Board Game Night, which has become my most reliable source of joy. Oh my goodness do I love it. It reinforces a knowledge I’ve had since I became an AcroYoga teacher, and yet often forget: play is essential to my wellbeing. Laughing that hard is the best medicine for what ails me.
I love you. I’m grateful for you every day.
Thank you for being a patron.
Thank you for making the world a more intimate place with me.
Thank you for getting horizontal.
Links to Useful Things:
Lemarc Thomas – The Matchmaking Agency’s website
The Lemarc Thomas Matchmaking Instagram
Lemarc invites any horizontal lovers who wish to apply for his network / open membership to: Get in touch and say you are horizontal!
The 36 Questions That Lead to Love, which Lemarc & Michael began on their first encounter
Show Notes:
(if you quote from this resource, link to the post or the horizontal Patreon!)
[2:27] The story of how Lemarc met his husband Michael
[2:41]
Lemarc: We have the type of love that I warn people against.
[6:17] Well, that escalated quickly…
[8:31] The magical trips that Lemarc and Michael took together before he moved to Sweden: to the Stockholm Archipelago, to Iceland, to Brazil
[10:00] Michael’s response to learning that Lemarc is a matchmaker
Lemarc: Usually, when I meet people— when I met people romantically and told them who I was or when I did, then they would get scared, and be self-conscious because… I know about relationships, therefore I can read their soul (laughs) and see all the things that’s wrong with them! Whereas, Michael, when he realized what I did, he said, “Oh wow! We’re gonna learn so much!”
Lila: Ahh.
Lemarc: And I think this is like…
Lila: Ohhh!
Lemarc: … such a— and I think this is why we have such a great relationship is because we learn and grow and develop… all the time. We are constantly facing conflict or difficulties or whatever is in our path and trying to find what is on the other side of it. And I think that takes us deeper and deeper.
[10:58] The qualities Lemarc fell for in Michael
Lemarc: The things in him that I really fell for — one was this confidence. That he owned himself. That he owned his sexuality. He made no excuses for it. He introduced me to all of his family, immediately. He never excused our gayness. And in that I felt so comfortable in my gayness, which I always excused. I’m so sorry for being gay but! You know, can I be here anyway? […] He just stepped into a space as a leader, and took his space. And I think that’s something that wowed me, that he could have that confidence. It made me accept… me.
[11:57 – 25:44] The grand tale of how Lemarc & Michael became the first same-sex couple to get married on St. Helena, including a backpacking across Africa, a long boat trip to the island, an old law, a modern constitution, & an equal rights battle on both political and judicial fronts!
[16:20] How they jumped into the fray
Lemarc: Day two of arriving in St. Helena and this is like the first time that Michael had been on St. Helena, we were meeting with the Attorney-General, who — he was gay himself, actually, and was telling us about what was happening. And I think because there were not so many openly gay couples on St. Helena who were actually St. Helenian — the majority of gay St. Helenians leave, like I did. So when I came back, just in the middle of all of this, it was a bit of an opportunity for the fight because, people could listen to my story and they could see how my sexuality had affected me growing up, and how I wanted to build a life with Michael and that the law actually inhibited us from getting married. […]
Lila: And it’s so important that they would have a face, who’s one of them, that they could see, because an issue… I think feels very remote to folks unless they know people, who it affects.
[25:45 – 34:23] The glorious story of his 2-week landmark wedding, which began with a Mexican wave at the airport, included a massive group hug, and concluded by swimming with whale sharks!
The guests at Lemarc & Michael’s wedding, sitting all together in a circle of trust.
[34:36] Lemarc on being in an interracial relationship, privilege, and assumptions
[41:18 – 46:12] How they resolved the conflict over Lemarc’s documentary opportunity
[43:28]
The more privileged you are, the more you can live by your heart.
[45:07]
Lemarc: We have quite a good process of dealing with conflict. What we tend to do is share— We try to hold a space for each other. So rather than getting into a heated argument, which of course, sometimes, happens, instead we try to hold a space where one person shares their perspective and the other mirrors what they hear and then, validates, and then tries to give empathy, as is the Imago process. We do that and then the other does the same, so we’re both being heard and we’re trying to see the other’s perspective, and… and usually through that, our activation systems are calmed down, and we can meet each other in the middle.
Lila: Mmmm.
Lemarc: It doesn’t always work! (both laugh) But when it works, it works perfectly!
[46:37] The process where they shared everything they were unhappy with about the other
[48:36 – 53:06] Lila on emotional release & Mama Gena’s swamping exercise
[53:19 – 56:08] Lemarc on the happiness of his marriage
[56:10]
Lemarc: I think it’s important to remember that there’s beauty in the dark and stormy as well. […] And I think this is something that’s quite problematic, that we see beauty in light and fluffiness, but the dark spaces can be magical too.
Lila: I had to find the love and beauty in my melancholy, and what I was able to create out of it.
Lemarc: How did you do that?
Lila: I think I did it through recognizing how beautiful the art that’s born of melancholy is. And potentially identifying with the quirky main characters of independent movies.
[57:12] Lemarc & Michael’s life together in Stockholm
Michael & Lemarc, wedding-time in a magical forest
[58:20]
Lemarc: I think initially, Michael wanted a lot more independence, and craved his own space, but I found the paradox— the more that I gave him his own space, the more that he wanted to be closer to me. And this was a huge struggle at the beginning of our relationship because he wanted so much space, and I had moved to Sweden to be with him. And I’m a big clingy, so, I was holding on. And now, I think, I’m the one that’s pushing him a bit away, like, No, darling, alone time now!
[59:02 – 1:01:52] Have they experimented with nonmonogamy?
[1:01:53] On the need for alone time when Lemarc & Michael resided in a co-living space
Lemarc: We used to live in a co-living space with 50 other people, and I think, in that space, I think we wanted a lot of— we needed a lot of time on our own and we needed a lot of escape… because […] it’s quite intense, I think. […] Whereas now that we’re living on our own, I sometimes think back to that time of how much space we needed. To now how much we (laughing) live in each other’s pockets. And I got to a point recently where I… realized that whenever something happened, I would, even in my head would be talking to him. And then I thought, Okay, n-n-n-n-no. We need some alone time now. So we also consciously take some alone time, and our idea was that, once a month, we would spend maybe a week apart, but in truth that doesn’t happen.
Lila: It’s hard to engineer, I think… you’d have to really be adamant about creating that space and, if you have less desire for it, then the adamance that’s required to make it happen is probably not there. But I love how that points to the environment that you’re couched in— how much that affects your desire to be together and apart, and for how much time. Because I don’t think that is considered enough.
Lemarc: In what way? What do you mean?
Lila: If you are in— if you are living with your children, for example, that’s going to (laughs), oh, I almost said direly, that’s (both laugh) oogh, that’s going to deeply affect your need for alone time, for instance, right? If you’re living in an intentional community, same thing, you kinda have to fight for it— you know I would look for, I— If I came home, and there was nobody on my floor… somebody called that once, “Lila’s Domestic Turn-on,” like, one of Lila’s domestic turn-ons is I come home and nobody’s home and I’m like Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Mmmmm. You know? And now I’m living alone and I have done— it’s been over six months. Which I’ve never done in my life! So I’ve been living alone for over six months, and I find that I, I expand into my alone time, but then I crave, I’m craving good company. […] Right, so, our environment— our immediate environment, really affecting how much time we want with our partner, or with our people.
[1:04:41] Do L & M regularly schedule time with friends?
[1:05:40] On being invited places.
Lemarc: For a long time, whenever Michael would get invited to an event or something, he would say, “Darling, we are invited to blahblahblahblahblah.” And I would always think, Oh wow, how nice of this person to invite me! But, they hadn’t invited me. He would just—
Lila: Och! Och. I had a partner who did that, yeah.
Lemarc: And I’m like, “Darling, you have to stop doing that. If both of us are invited, then great, if not, then you have to go— it’s just you. Let’s assume it’s just you.” I mean, I think it was really great that he included me so much. But I think we had to kind of consciously… choose like, okay, I’m going to meet this friend, on my own, and you’re not invited, and you’re going to go to that thing, and I’m not coming! (Lila giggles lightly) It’s amazing how, after a while, you become so entangled in each other. And then you kinda have— well, I find, it, is a conscious effort to… create the individual things, and to, to stick with these things, ‘cause I think that the other part of our relationship, because we, you know because we don’t have such, typical, lives, is that we have a lot of time for each other. If / when we don’t have that, then it can be a bit strange like, Okay… why are you not taking care of my every need right now? Where are you? What’s going on? I need a massage! There’s noone here!
[1:07:33] What kind of future does Lemarc hope to create with Michael? Do they want a family? What kind of family?
[1:09:38] Some of the education and preparation required of prospective parents during the adoption process
Lemarc: In the adoption process, you have to learn about attachment styles and, you know, all the difficulties that the child could possibly have, and how you’re going to handle that, and you talk about what’s going to happen if you break up and, what’s your exit strategy, and you bring in all of the community around you— you know, your close community and say “We’re gonna have a child, and we want you to be in the child’s lives and this is how we want you to be in the child’s life.” And I thought like, this is a process if you’re going to adopt a child! So, maybe we should have this process for everyone who wants to have a child!
Lila: I wish! I wish there were a process! I wish there were a process with tests.
[1:11:33] Lemarc on the vision of communal parenting presented in Aldous Huxley’s Island
Lemarc: There’s a part of that book where they talk about bringing up children, and they talk about, about 30 families being a part of the child’s community, and the child can choose wherever it wants to live, so, if the parents are going through something and not serving the child, then, the child can just go to another family and stay there and then go back when it wants to. And I thought, this is amazing to have— imagine having all of these role models around you and you’re not limited to the two people that are your mum and dad, and if you can accept when your mum and dad are— you know, they’re human, so they’re probably going to have a few flaws and go through some stuff, and then you have some other people you can stay with while they sort out their stuff.
Lila: Yes, imagine having all these adults who care about you! I don’t know… yeah, what would that be like? I think that would be… life-affirming. I think it would create so much self-confidence, actually, in a child, to know there are all these people I can go to, and they all care about me.
Lemarc: I notice, with people who’ve had traumatic upbringings that, if they’ve had a short time with someone who was a positive role model in their life, it could make a huuuge huge huge difference in that child’s psychological well-being.
Lila: They did a study of queer folks, as well, you’ve probably heard that, that having one person who said, “You’re okay; I accept you as you are,” reduced the likelihood of a suicide attempt by a great degree.
TO LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE:
Your patronage helps keep horizontal independent and uncensored, as well as unlocking access to all the part twos, the secret patrons Facebook group, & Intimacy Tips videos (like last month’s “Coping with The Inner Critics”).
